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Old 03 November 2017, 15:32   #1
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RIB Hire

Hi all,

I'm banging my head against a wall here... are there any places that I can hire a RIB and trailer in the south east? I have two projects I'm working on regarding photographing seals, and need a RIB for trips to Blakeney Point in Norfolk and the Farne Islands. I've been looking everywhere with no luck at all, can anyone help? I know there are boat trips available but I need to be free to observe the seals as they dictate, not what the clock or a schedule dictates. Private charter is also not particularly suitable or abundant.

Many thanks


Ben
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Old 03 November 2017, 18:59   #2
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Its a problem...

Because you want to charter a boat and take it anywhere. Now imagine that you owned the RIB would you want to hand it over to a random stranger for a period of time. But more so because it would need to be coded.

That means it needs a liferaft, plus various other things. But that means its a BIG RIB.

There are ways round that - you hire for use in "local" waters. Bembridge Marine hire Ribs for use in the Solent. Restricted Area means less coding issues and also means less security concerns.

There are companies out there. But not many for the model of use you are thinking. Solent Rib Charter perhaps?

Typically you will be shelling out £300/day when booking for a week. I guess you need at least 2 weeks worth to cover the travel etc? You'd be cheaper buying and reselling it 6 months later!

There was a guy who hired SIBs out (delivered to your address by courier). I think too small for your needs, but also not sure that still runs.

There is no demand because of the cost.

The people who would like this would be the dinghy sailing parents. But they need a hire maybe 4-6 weekends a year. Often for big events, where demand could be high. They'd be hiring 4 days (Fri-Mon) to allow collection etc. So 16 days / year at £300 a day gets you to > £5k / year. That buys a lot of second hand boat. Second hand boat has its issues, but is also ALWAYS there when you get a call to say could you pop along and give a hand...
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Old 04 November 2017, 03:02   #3
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. Private charter is also not particularly suitable or abundant.

Iím surprised at that if it is outside of main tourist season. Do you mean not affordable?
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Old 04 November 2017, 03:40   #4
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Might be able to help at the Farnes
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Old 04 November 2017, 10:24   #5
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Does anyone know the coding requirements for self drive hire for say 4-6m ribs? I've thought for a while there was a business opportunity there to cater for the sail coaching parents and holidaying divers and people wanting to get out on the water without the expense of purchasing
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Old 04 November 2017, 10:56   #6
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SS is right you would be better buying a secondhand boat mob de-mob costs on top of minimum hire period plus availability. Cheapest rib we can hire at work is £900/day skipped plus fuel, port fees.
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Old 04 November 2017, 12:34   #7
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Does anyone know the coding requirements for self drive hire for say 4-6m ribs? I've thought for a while there was a business opportunity there to cater for the sail coaching parents and holidaying divers and people wanting to get out on the water without the expense of purchasing
Its not dependent on the length of the boat, but the range from (home) port. So assuming it can go anywhere by road to cover the setup you describe, then
you are trying to cover requirements for MGN 280(N) rather than a local harbour authority requirement.

Here are the categories in MGN:
Category 6: To sea within 3 miles from a nominated departure point(s) named in the certificate and never more than 3 miles from land in favourable weather and daylight.
Category 5: To sea within 20 miles from a nominated departure point named in the certificate in favourable weather and daylight.
Category 4: Up to 20 miles from a safe haven in favourable weather and in daylight.
Category 3: Up to 20 miles from a safe haven.
Category 2: Up to 60 miles from a safe haven.
Category 1: Up to 150 miles from a safe haven.
Category 0: Unrestricted service.


So - assuming you are happy that divers and sail coaches will be in favourable weather and daylight, but are not restricting them to 20miles from your home port you are looking at a Cat 4 requirement. That would probably cover most people's requirements.

Bear in mind, your vessel now needs to meet the MCAs requirements for stability 20miles out. I don't know but for a 4m RIB that may or may not present a challenge. Certainly proving it presents a cost.

You need to comply with ISO 6185 Part 2 or 3

Plus

Bucket
Lifebouys x 2
Liferaft
Lifejackets for all on board (plus as they will be inflatable) 2 spares.
HH VHF
DSC VHF Fixed Unit
Battery for the above needs to be non-swampable.
Flares (2 x Red hand, 2 x Smoke)
Manual
Thermo Protective Aids
Fire fighting equipment (specifics need checked)
Echo Sounder
Charts
Signal Lamp
Radar Reflector
2 Anchors with chain (10m chain and 20m rope each), 1 >=8kg & 1 >=4kg,
Cat C First Aid Kit

There are technical details on all of that.

The anchors can be a pain because they are quite large for the size of boat you are talking about, and carrying 2 with a lot of chain becomes a stowage issue.

The Liferaft is also a major PITA. Especially as it needs to be SOLAS etc not just a cheap-ass one from the yachting equivalent of poundland. Plus it needs to carry the max crew for the boat (I assume you could down plate the boat?)

As with the liferaft, lifejackets will need to be serviced etc.

So - you would probably pick something the size of a SR5.4 to meet your spec. Plated for 8, but you might reduce that to 5, but you'll need to provide 7 life jackets! Frustrating as the coach will probably wear a PFD and be 100m from another boat who will fish him out if he goes for a swim. Plus you need a 6 man life raft that will never be used. But there is no option if the boat wont be operating from its named port. If its using a named port, like in the Solent only, you can get the local council to certify it instead of MCA.

I'd guess just maintaining lifejackets and raft will be ~£1k per boat per year?

There may be other details I've missed.

How much will coaches pay to rent the boat? Would they collect it or you deliver it to them?

How will damage and faults be handled.

You can buy a SR 4.7m with a 70HP on a trailer for £4k - located near you. You could probably get that through the coding (if you can get the stability tests etc) but you'll spend another £2k+ on getting the kit tweaked etc, and have insurance, trailer insurance/breakdown to cover , annual costs for licences and servicing costs plus the fees etc. I'd guess first year £4k, then second year on £2k. Lets assume it will last 4 years* your cost of ownership will be £12k, so £3k per year. (*I am assuming at that stage the boat has no residual value at all which may be unfair.)

Hire will mostly be for the weekends and mostly in the summer. I guess max 12 weeks of the year. Lets assume Fri - Mon hire. You need £250 hire each time just to cover your costs. If you actually wanted to make profit and have some safety blanket in there for rising costs, uncovered damages etc you will need £350 for a weekend hire.

Coaching Dad wants that boat 3 times a year. That costs him £1k. But if he can afford £4k he could buy that same boat, have less hassles of getting it and returning it and knows any damage is his problem rather than a lost deposit etc. In 2 years time, used the boat 6 times he sells it. It would sell for £3.5k+ unless he has trashed it. He has saved £1.5k...

So... the only benefits I can see are if you deliver the boat to the venue for him and retrieve it. But that means you are now towing boats all over the country...

In short - I'd love there to be a hire service, but I don't think the ££ balances out. You'd likely hire a much newer boat... but as an owner a newer boat just means more depreciation.
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Old 04 November 2017, 18:04   #8
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Does anyone know the coding requirements for self drive hire for say 4-6m ribs? I've thought for a while there was a business opportunity there to cater for the sail coaching parents and holidaying divers and people wanting to get out on the water without the expense of purchasing


Quite a large part of the Clyde are categorised waters which could make the possibilities rather different there (just as for the Solent) but as a general rule the Ecconomics donít stack up.
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Old 04 November 2017, 18:14   #9
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Quite a large part of the Clyde are categorised waters which could make the possibilities rather different there (just as for the Solent) but as a general rule the Ecconomics donít stack up.
Yes as far south as the cumbreas and the tip of Bute including loch fyne are categorised that and the close proximity to loch lomond makes me wonder if renting smaller ribs could be cost effective. shinyshoes list of coding requirements makes it unfeasible but I'd be interested to know the requirements within the clydeport area and loch lomond.
I know that the national centre on cumbrae had to code some of their boats and alter some of their operating procedures recently and they are within the categorized area.
It seems you can hire boats in other countries but not the UK
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Old 04 November 2017, 18:23   #10
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Itís not clydeport you would need to deal with. To rent in categorised waters your choice is either to do any of the coded options - eg cat 6 giving you three miles south of the limits in the Clyde, or local authority licensing and stay within the categorised areas. But for these lesser approaches you need to define your ďbaseĒ location.
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Old 04 November 2017, 18:33   #11
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RIB Hire

Solent RIB Charter are very good and will let you trail their boats by negotiation. Prices around £350 plus VAT per day, excluding fuel.

https://solentribcharter.co.uk/bareb...boat-rib-hire/
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Old 05 November 2017, 03:52   #12
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Solent RIB Charter are very good and will let you trail their boats by negotiation. Prices around £350 plus VAT per day, excluding fuel.

https://solentribcharter.co.uk/bareb...boat-rib-hire/
Nice boats but I'd imagine the cost would deter a lot of people. but it seems that the boats need to be up around this size to be able to comply with the coding requirements.
I had In mind sr4 size upwards to make it cost efective for lots of people and purposes
I can see why there is a gap in the market the rules seem to make it unworkable
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Old 06 November 2017, 13:34   #13
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The applicable code for "categorised waters" is....

https://www.gov.uk/government/public...nger-boat-code

Compliance with the code is "voluntary" at the minute however it is within the scope of a harbour authority / council to adopt it as a statutory requirement to operate within their controlled jurisdiction.

Having discussed this with Clydeport's assistant harbour master this hadn't been done however they will probably require you to furnish them with a copy of your procedures manual and risk assessment documents if you're going to operate in "their harbour".......ie most of the Clyde estuary. This is what I was asked for.

Another potential pitfall might be getting insurance if the vessels not coded.

On a more positive note, from memory (and it's not always good) I think some of the more onerous stability requirements don't apply to vessels under six meters. Worth a bit reading.
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Old 06 November 2017, 14:04   #14
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The applicable code for "categorised waters" is....



https://www.gov.uk/government/public...nger-boat-code



Compliance with the code is "voluntary" at the minute however it is within the scope of a harbour authority / council to adopt it as a statutory requirement to operate within their controlled jurisdiction.



Having discussed this with Clydeport's assistant harbour master this hadn't been done however they will probably require you to furnish them with a copy of your procedures manual and risk assessment documents if you're going to operate in "their harbour".......ie most of the Clyde estuary. This is what I was asked for.



Another potential pitfall might be getting insurance if the vessels not coded.



On a more positive note, from memory (and it's not always good) I think some of the more onerous stability requirements don't apply to vessels under six meters. Worth a bit reading.

You will need a license from the local authority to hire out boats inside categorised waters. I donít know if there is any harmonisation there but argyl and Bute starting point is for the boat to be similar to coding standard, perhaps with some relaxation if there is a suitable justification. Itís not clear how that works if you hire in A&B but the boat moves to Dumbartonshire under the hirerís steam...
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