some help needed

[Highland Fling]

For the last 20+ years we have been sailing in the Caribbean on a Beneteau Oceanis 461.

BUT for reasons that don’t need explained or explored here all this is coming to an end.

Our tender IS/was a Zodiac 310 RIB with an ES 15 HP 4 stroke Yamaha outboard.

This combination is great for Caribbean Load Lugging typicality 6x5 gallons of fresh water 300 lb plus two crew

BUT both the Zodiac and the Yam are well past their sell by date

Hanging on the back on Highland Fling on the custom made Bimini, radar arch, davits S/S structure reduces the freeboard at the transom to an unacceptable degree. Farr too much weight way at the rear of the boat (the B461 has the same hull as the First 45f5) so she is not of the wide arsed modern generation of hull shapes.

BUT all is not lost the ultra heavy 15HP E/s 4 Stoke YAM is no more.

I have just rebuilt a Mercury 5HP two stoke obviously this does not have the power or the get up and go of the Yam but for now it is fine.

Highland Fling is coming back to the UK late May early June

Once back in the UK obviously my tender needs change significantly.

OPTIONS are to purchase {her in Sint Maarten} a Tohatsu 9.8 or 18HP 2Stroke OR even a Yamaha 15 HP 2 stroke the US version NOT the enduro model that is a quick $2,500 OR slightly cheaper for the 9.8 THESE are the maybe upgraded power options not forgetting the 5HP Mercury which is a free option.

DINK go for a Lightweight Caribe or an AB probably about 8 foot long

That is or are my Caribbean options.

Now 100 years ago I had an Avon Redcrest (didn’t we all have one) it got stolen coming down Neptunes staircase in the Caledonian Canal and got replaced by a cute yellow Metzler (just sold it about a year ago now) that was like a Porsche upgrade :-)

NOW important things are to get weight off of the transom, and have something manageable by me ashore, exiting the car and pulling up a beach, ok maybe a shingle weedy shore BUT we do have some nice sadly beaches in Scotland.

And as I have no idea ATM where HF will be berthed (in Scotland) on a swinging mooring or in a marina berth when we are not away cruising extensively SIB's sneak into the picture.

Now I suppose after 20+ years of using a RIB and around a 15HP outboard I am used to a nicely sized ROB O/B combination. BUT times are about to change and the tender need to change too. For sure I cannot handle the Zodiac out of the water, getting too old at not into heavy lifting. Obviously the function will change I cannot see me doing one and two mile trips heavily laden with 300 lbs of water jugs and I don’t anticipate long tender trips {mostly moving 1,2,3 people max 4 I would think, from HF at anchor somewhere to the harbour/shore.

Lets assume that HF's home (swinging 300/400 yards from the shore) mooring is on the River Clyde spring and autumn OR maybe on a loch on the west coast {Loch Melfort springs to mind} so I want a SIP with fold up wide plastic wheels and room for a max of 4 adults. HP from the 5HP I have up to a 9.8 Tohatsu 2 stroke. I loved my 15 HP ES 4stroke Yam but it does weigh a ton and I have no ambitions to being a weight lifting champion.

I have a Volvo V70R estate so I would assume lots of room for the chosen SIB and sailing gear ALSO I am looking for good USER recommendations for Dink fold up wheels and for a 12V HP inflater I have heard good and bad things about the top notch Bravo BTP 12 one. and I would probable use a separate 12V battery.

So I am looking for the best SIB recommendations

The Boatyard where she is a just had a new arrival from France and they had a lovely SIB a bit small for me Zodiac C260 Aero but had a great set of wheels of course being a Zodiac it did look good, sadly being PVC the Caribbean sun will soon destroy this SIB BUT the Zodiac range looked good to me typically the Zodiac Cadet 310 or 350 Airdeck


Maybe an EXCEL Volante 330 HONWAVE ???


cheaper/ better SIB's thoughts?

many many thanks for all input

David

[Steve509926]

Hi, and although it's your 2nd post, welcome.

West Coast of Scotland = Caribbean with midge's but without the sun!

Any 330 sib is going to be a tight squeeze with 4 up with any gear, and depending how far you want to travel, frustratingly slow with anything less than a 9.8

The Excel Volante 330 flat air deck, is solid, well built, good quality, very stable, has a broad internal beam giving lots of internal space. However, it is heavy and therefore benefits from more hp. I had the larger Volante 360 for 5 years and thought it was excellent.

The Excel 330 Explorer is solid, good quality, not quite as stable because of the Air V deck, it is narrower and much lighter. It is more manageable than the Volante and faster given the same hp.

The Honwave T32 is very similar to the Explorer 330 but IMO has less usable deck space due to the upsweep of the bow.

Boatworld 320 Explorer, again another air V deck. It is wide, has lots of usable deck space. IMO it is probably the best quality sib I've seen out of the Boatworld stable. I was very tempted to buy one (I bought the Excel 360 Explorer) but the max transom hp is 15hp and I wanted to fit a 20hp.

I think all of the air V decks will be ok with a 9.8 (obviously displacement speed with 3-4 up) and all should be fine with a 15hp although 4 up will be a test for all of them.

Transom wheels have been an absolute pita since I've had a sib. I had so many bend and the plastic type shatter. I eventually settled for the Beachmaster type of wheel when I had the Volante 360 which worked very well and I can recommend them. However they won't fit on any Sib V deck.
I have some Vevor 15" lbs300 wheels fitted to my Excel Explorer and so far they have proved to be good quality & reliable.

12V electric inflator. I had a 12v Bravo which I hated because of the noise, it was so loud! For 5 years I've used a cheap 12v Sevylor 15psi and it has never let me down. I now also use an Aqua Spirit HP pump which goes to 20psi (bought for a SUP) it's fast but I can't comment on reliability as I've not had it long enough.

Hope the above helps, good luck with your choice and let us know how you get on.

[Highland Fling]

Originally Posted by Steve509926

Hi, and although it's your 2nd post, welcome.

West Coast of Scotland = Caribbean with midge's but without the sun!

Any 330 sib is going to be a tight squeeze with 4 up with any gear, and depending how far you want to travel, frustratingly slow with anything less than a 9.8

The Excel Volante 330 flat air deck, is solid, well built, good quality, very stable, has a broad internal beam giving lots of internal space. However, it is heavy and therefore benefits from more hp. I had the larger Volante 360 for 5 years and thought it was excellent.

The Excel 330 Explorer is solid, good quality, not quite as stable because of the Air V deck, it is narrower and much lighter. It is more manageable than the Volante and faster given the same hp.

The Honwave T32 is very similar to the Explorer 330 but IMO has less usable deck space due to the upsweep of the bow.

Boatworld 320 Explorer, again another air V deck. It is wide, has lots of usable deck space. IMO it is probably the best quality sib I've seen out of the Boatworld stable. I was very tempted to buy one (I bought the Excel 360 Explorer) but the max transom hp is 15hp and I wanted to fit a 20hp.

I think all of the air V decks will be ok with a 9.8 (obviously displacement speed with 3-4 up) and all should be fine with a 15hp although 4 up will be a test for all of them.

Transom wheels have been an absolute pita since I've had a sib. I had so many bend and the plastic type shatter. I eventually settled for the Beachmaster type of wheel when I had the Volante 360 which worked very well and I can recommend them. However they won't fit on any Sib V deck.
I have some Vevor 15" lbs300 wheels fitted to my Excel Explorer and so far they have proved to be good quality & reliable.

12V electric inflator. I had a 12v Bravo which I hated because of the noise, it was so loud! For 5 years I've used a cheap 12v Sevylor 15psi and it has never let me down. I now also use an Aqua Spirit HP pump which goes to 20psi (bought for a SUP) it's fast but I can't comment on reliability as I've not had it long enough.

Hope the above helps, good luck with your choice and let us know how you get on.

WOW awesome many thanks


Scottish midges migrated to the Caribbean and GREW FANGS and have a LOVE for Scottish Blood


A few questions are 'most' SIB's with air deck floors flat bottomed externally and don’t have a V shaped hull?


I am trying hard not to purchase the Tohatsu 9.8 2 stroke


BUT HF was just launched yesterday and ATM my ULTRA HEAVY Zodiac Cadet 3.10 RIB is still to be tested with my just repaired (both idle and main jet blocked with toffee from evaporating old fuel} Merc 5HP O/B So I have yet to experience how SLOW the RIB is with this 5HP Mercury.


LOADING in the UK will be normally {90%}be two adults BUT I would like that ability to carry four


Amazingly the couple with the nice Zodiac 260 with a 6HP Yam 4 stroke just went past at 3/4 knots everyone else is on the plane and doing 20's


many thanks for your input

[Steve509926]

Originally Posted by Highland Fling

A few questions are 'most' SIB's with air deck floors flat bottomed externally and don’t have a V shaped hull?


I am trying hard not to purchase the Tohatsu 9.8 2 stroke


BUT HF was just launched yesterday and ATM my ULTRA HEAVY Zodiac Cadet 3.10 RIB is still to be tested with my just repaired (both idle and main jet blocked with toffee from evaporating old fuel} Merc 5HP O/B So I have yet to experience how SLOW the RIB is with this 5HP Mercury.

Amazingly the couple with the nice Zodiac 260 with a 6HP Yam 4 stroke just went past at 3/4 knots everyone else is on the plane and doing 20's


many thanks for your input

No, most sibs with flat air deck floors will have an inflatable sausage which when inflated forms a V "hull". They are a bit draggy through.

Personally, I would regret not buying a 9.8 Tohatsu or 15 Yam before I got to the UK, where you can only legally buy used and the prices are extortionate.

5hp on a small rib will perform considerably better than on a sib. 6hp on a Volante 330 2 up will be in the region of 6kts flat calm, down hill with the wind behind you!

[Highland Fling]

Originally Posted by Steve509926

No, most sibs with flat air deck floors will have an inflatable sausage which when inflated forms a V "hull". They are a bit draggy through.

Personally, I would regret not buying a 9.8 Tohatsu or 15 Yam before I got to the UK, where you can only legally buy used and the prices are extortionate.

5hp on a small rib will perform considerably better than on a sib. 6hp on a Volante 330 2 up will be in the region of 6kts flat calm, down hill with the wind behind you!

My thoughts as well, a 9.8 Tohatsu is around $1,700 an 18 is $2,500 and IF you push hard enough you can get a US Spec Yamaha 15HP 2 stroke NOT the Enduro model (which seems to have issues) but the US style one with the front gear-shift for $2,500


OUCH this is around £1,300 to nearly £1,900


I did a trial round the Simpson Bay lagoon today and the 5hp Merc is WORKING HARD I think it is over propped for the speed it was pushing this BIG RIB at. So I will see if I can sell her and if that works and I get a decent price I will buy the Yamaha. I have a GOOD CC that does any currency without silly charges so the pain will be in a months time :-(


Looked at the EXCEL site and they have many options :-)


Thanks again

[Steve509926]

Originally Posted by Highland Fling

My thoughts as well, a 9.8 Tohatsu is around $1,700 an 18 is $2,500 and IF you push hard enough you can get a US Spec Yamaha 15HP 2 stroke NOT the Enduro model (which seems to have issues) but the US style one with the front gear-shift for $2,500


OUCH this is around £1,300 to nearly £1,900

To put this into perspective, you will pay around £1200 for a 15 year old 9.8 Tohatsu and £1600 for a 15 year old 15hp Yam. IMO definitely buy it new where you are now.
Bring back your 5hp and sell it in the UK. You'll recoup at least a 1/3rd of your costs for buying a new 9.8/15.

I'd take a look at the Boatworld 320 Explorer :-

https://boatworld.co.uk/collections/...ignature-model

[beamishken]

Im trying to work out if the new boat is going to purely replace the old one & live on davits all its life? If thats the case I'd look at the new generation aluminum hull ribs. A rib will outperform a sib in every way apart from the cost & ability to fold. They hang on davits better & can be lighter than an equivalent sib.
We replaced our excel air deck sib tender with a ribeye aluminum hull tender & its actually lighter than the excell planes better with the same power & feels more secure as your lower in the boat.
Obviously if your going to be using it as a standalone boat from the back of your car then the sib wins.

[Highland Fling]

Originally Posted by Steve509926

To put this into perspective, you will pay around £1200 for a 15 year old 9.8 Tohatsu and £1600 for a 15 year old 15hp Yam. IMO definitely buy it new where you are now.
Bring back your 5hp and sell it in the UK. You'll recoup at least a 1/3rd of your costs for buying a new 9.8/15.

Originally Posted by Steve509926

I'd take a look at the Boatworld 320 Explorer :-

https://boatworld.co.uk/collections/...ignature-model

WOW that seems amazing IF True but certainly worth considering BUT onward


OK MORE SIB stuff


It seems I may have found a SIB that 'feels like' a RIB on the water and not a hovercraft.
The Bombard Aerotec 380

Also I see some SIB's with alloy floors I would imagine with a blow up sausage to give some sort of V hull shape thoughts?




ALSO I seems that the marketing people have got involved with the design element as 'most' of the SIB;s have long pointed ends to the hulls (makes the boat bigger) rather than having a truncated round end like Zodiac have At least the Boatworld 320 Explorer does not fall into this trap. However the colour is uninspiring and it looks just a wee bit tiny BUT I am sure the 9.8 Tohatsu woudl make a nice combo. NOW if they did a 360/380 {with the 15HP Yamaha} I think I would be interested BUT ATM the Aerotec 380 looks like a winner


MORE Thoughts???

[Highland Fling]

Originally Posted by beamishken

Im trying to work out if the new boat is going to purely replace the old one & live on davits all its life? If thats the case I'd look at the new generation aluminum hull ribs. A rib will outperform a sib in every way apart from the cost & ability to fold. They hang on davits better & can be lighter than an equivalent sib.
We replaced our excel air deck sib tender with a ribeye aluminum hull tender & its actually lighter than the excell planes better with the same power & feels more secure as your lower in the boat.
Obviously if your going to be using it as a standalone boat from the back of your car then the sib wins.

Yes it is going to be used from the shore to HF on a mooring or at anchor in a nice west highland loch and live at home transported to and from HF in the back of my Volvo V70R SO a SIB wins hands down


thanks for you input though

[Fenlander]

The Aerotec is hard to advise on. We bought ours new 11yrs ago as one of the last of the production run. After around ten sibs the Aerotec is a real sweet spot for our expectations and use. So yes a very interesting SIB but no longer made and most that come up for sale are a good deal older than ours also likely suffering transom and floor glue failure. The tubes are ok as they’re heat welded.

[Steve509926]

Originally Posted by Highland Fling

WOW that seems amazing IF True but certainly worth considering BUT onward


OK MORE SIB stuff


It seems I may have found a SIB that 'feels like' a RIB on the water and not a hovercraft.
The Bombard Aerotec 380

Also I see some SIB's with alloy floors I would imagine with a blow up sausage to give some sort of V hull shape thoughts?




ALSO I seems that the marketing people have got involved with the design element as 'most' of the SIB;s have long pointed ends to the hulls (makes the boat bigger) rather than having a truncated round end like Zodiac have At least the Boatworld 320 Explorer does not fall into this trap. However the colour is uninspiring and it looks just a wee bit tiny BUT I am sure the 9.8 Tohatsu woudl make a nice combo. NOW if they did a 37/380 {with the 15HPYamaha} I think I would be interested BUT ATM the Aerotec 380 looks like a winner


MORE Thoughts???

Last year of manufacture for the Aerortec 380 was 2016/2017. Although it's a sib with a huge following, personally I would want something a little newer (glue failure springs to mind) You could be lucky and come across a very good condition 2nd hand one but they are becoming hard to find.

Ali floored sib, some say they are a great fishing platform and handle better than an air deck sib in choppy water. Personally I find them awkward to assemble, bloody heavy and for my use offer no benefit over an airdeck sib or a Air V deck sib.

Longer tubes at the stern help with heavier 4 stroke outboards, nothing to do with marketing people.

The Boatworld 320 Explorer is bigger than it appears. When looking at size, don't just think about the length. Look at the internal length and the internal width. The Boatworld Explorer is bigger (internal deck space) than the Aerotec 380.

If you are thinking of going slightly larger, take a look at the Excel 360 Explorer. Great sib but it will need to be paired up with at least a 15hp to get the best out of it. Bare in mind, the bigger you go the heavier it becomes.

Take a look at this video of my Excel 360 Explorer:-

https://youtu.be/kD13XAVCsww?si=-x7kHM1agrXeI5XA

[Highland Fling]

Originally Posted by Fenlander

The Aerotec is hard to advise on. We bought ours new 11yrs ago as one of the last of the production run. After around ten sibs the Aerotec is a real sweet spot for our expectations and use. So yes a very interesting SIB but no longer made and most that come up for sale are a good deal older than ours also likely suffering transom and floor glue failure. The tubes are ok as they’re heat welded.

so how old is yours?


are these expensive fixes and of course are there good people out there that would do all necessary proper repairs


AND if I go look at one what do I need to look at, the year of build? then how can I decide IF it needs any repairs


i WAS TOLD by somebody somewhere that they would still build one to order

[Fenlander]

Mine’s a 2014 build sold new in 2015. Yes there are specialists that will repair them but sometimes the repairs have a far shorter life than the original glue. The last time I heard they had built to order it was soon after they discontinued the model around ten years ago.

Re assessing repairs on one you look at check for signs of non-original glue repairs and if it looks original have a crafty pull at the glued seams.

[Highland Fling]

Originally Posted by Fenlander

Mine’s a 2014 build sold new in 2015. Yes there are specialists that will repair them but sometimes the repairs have a far shorter life than the original glue. The last time I heard they had built to order it was soon after they discontinued the model around ten years ago.

Re assessing repairs on one you look at check for signs of non-original glue repairs and if it looks original have a crafty pull at the glued seams.

So at 12 years on it is still good to go


should i think harder about other SIB's and temporay abandon looking for a Bombard Aerotec 380deep V SIB and go for one of the EXCEL models


one on Ebay a combo with yam and a trailer BUT they say "The transom has been re-glued in the past, it’s not pretty but it is very solid"


I dont need the trailer and probably the outboard so maybe worth a look see

[Highland Fling]

is it true that the RED ones are FASTER than the Grey ones??? ;-)

[Steve509926]

Originally Posted by Highland Fling

is it true that the RED ones are FASTER than the Grey ones??? ;-)

Of course they are, that's why the RNLI have red/orange sibs & ribs

[chipko]

Fully agree the Aerotec is the ‘best of the best’ in the performance sib class, we have an old one and the glue is still holding up, but for how long is anyone’s guess.

For mainly yacht tender duties, ferrying passengers and supplies from shore to mooring, personally I’d not be recommending one. You’ll not be needing its performance advantage whilst having to live with all it’s little idiosyncrasies, like narrow beam, big tubes, very limited usable deck space, aggressive V shaped internal deck and relatively rocky whilst stepping in and out. It is great though with a big motor pushing on through swell and chop.

Some decent lightweight air floor sibs been recommended above and you’d not go far wrong with many of them. However, I’m going to throw in a bit of a curve ball and ask if you’ve considered one of the many inflatable catamarans now out there. Lightweight and very stable at rest, go well with smaller motors, acres of flat deck space, easy step on step off particularly suitable to run up beach and passengers don’t even have to get their feet wet. Eminently suited as yacht tenders and really wouldn’t need to go bigger than say 3.3m as so much usable deck space

[Highland Fling]

Originally Posted by chipko

Fully agree the Aerotec is the ‘best of the best’ in the performance sib class, we have an old one and the glue is still holding up, but for how long is anyone’s guess.


For mainly yacht tender duties, ferrying passengers and supplies from shore to mooring, personally I’d not be recommending one. You’ll not be needing its performance advantage whilst having to live with all it’s little idiosyncrasies, like narrow beam, big tubes, very limited usable deck space, aggressive V shaped internal deck and relatively rocky whilst stepping in and out. It is great though with a big motor pushing on through swell and chop.

Some decent lightweight air floor sibs been recommended above and you’d not go far wrong with many of them. However, I’m going to throw in a bit of a curve ball and ask if you’ve considered one of the many inflatable catamarans now out there. Lightweight and very stable at rest, go well with smaller motors, acres of flat deck space, easy step on step off particularly suitable to run up beach and passengers don’t even have to get their feet wet. Eminently suited as yacht tenders and really wouldn’t need to go bigger than say 3.3m as so much usable deck space

HOW OLD is your one???

YES and NO having had for the last 21 years a RIB with a 15HP outboard and PRE THAT Avon Redcrest and then a Metzler I really dont want a hovercraft UNLESS that is the only sensible option BUT ATM my thoughts are with the BAT :-)


AND YES there are a few inflatable cats out here and no I have not really considered one.


With my yacht tender I expect to be comfortable and who knows what sort of journeys that we may take in her. One trip could easily be from Tinkers Hole on Mull to the ferry slip at Iona just a wee dash acoross the sound of Iona and about 2 nautical miles. Plus exploring west of Scotland Sea Lochs Maybe even dashing out to Staffa and Fingals Cave (quite and open sea journey) from the nearest secure anchorage probably Tinkers Hole again and that would be a 4/5 nautical mile trip SO seaworthyness is a prioroty doubly so as my new partner is just 'about' to start a sailing career


AND finding a nice day to sprint though Coire Bhreacain {Done that about six times in previous yachts}

[spartacus]

Couple of things from this thread.

+1 for bring back Yamaha 15hp 2-stroke
+1 for Loch Melfort (swinging mooring or marina)

[Highland Fling]

Originally Posted by spartacus

Couple of things from this thread.

+1 for bring back Yamaha 15hp 2-stroke
+1 for Loch Melfort (swinging mooring or marina)

NO taxes in Sint Maarten :-)