Of Tipis, Wolves, SIBs & Whitetails - Page 2

willk · 13 November 2009, 18:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alangaq

There is no such thing as balance in nature, with huge cyclic swings in prey/predator populations being the “natural” way of the world.....

.... The idea being to flatten the curve and do away with the natural cyclic swings. No it isn’t perfect, and there are many conflicting viewpoints and political pressure from both sides that skews things back and forth, but overall the system works fairly well.

Alangaq,

In clarification of my comments, I was using the term "fit" in it's Darwinian sense (fit for purpose, if you like), and not referring to ill or unhealthy animals. Predators will catch whatever they can most easily. Wolves that catch more prey than their buddies are "fitter", the deer that escape from them for longer are "fitter". My point was that by adjusting this relationship to favour one party, you cannot be "helping ecology", an ecological system, by definition, "helps" itself. I have no issues with "ranching" wild populations, it's preferable to wiping them out, I just wouldn't dress it up as a virtue.

A guy I know locally has a nice garden and enjoys the small songbirds that frequent it. He traps and destroys magpies (a notorious small bird predator) in a square mile around his property because "there are too many magpies" when in reality, there are currently "too many" songbirds being fed and protected from predation by people in the village.

Another way of looking at the matter is to simply accept our role as Primary Predator in the equation and batter away, doing what the other predators do. Problem is we're VERY good predators.

prairie tuber · 13 November 2009, 18:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by willk

Problem is we're VERY good predators.

Not me. Tag soup is in my bowl at least as often as venison stew is.

prairie tuber · 13 November 2009, 19:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alangaq

Wow…. Prairie tuber I really like that trapezoid shaped gear box in the front of your SIB. Who makes it, and were can I get my hands on one!

I've got a fairly detailed explanation of it in post #8 of this thread;

http://www.rib.net/forum/showthread....083#post254083

Alangaq · 13 November 2009, 19:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by willk

Alangaq,

In clarification of my comments, I was using the term "fit" in it's Darwinian sense (fit for purpose, if you like), and not referring to ill or unhealthy animals. Predators will catch whatever the can most easily. Wolves that catch more prey than their buddies are "fitter", the deer that escape from them for longer are "fitter". My point was that by adjusting this relationship to favour one party, you cannot be "helping ecology", an ecological system, by definition, "helps" itself. I have no issues with "ranching" wild populations, it's preferable to wiping them out, I just wouldn't dress it up as a virtue.

A guy I know locally has a nice garden and enjoys the small songbirds that frequent it. He traps and destroys magpies (a notorious small bird predator) in a square mile around his property because "there are too many magpies" when in reality, there are currently "too many" songbirds being fed and protected from predation by people in the village.

Another way of looking at the matter is to simply accept our role as Primary Predator in the equation and batter away, doing what the other predators do. Problem is we're VERY good predators.

Willk, I think you and I are pretty much on the same page as to what game management actually is, or isn’t. We may, or may not differ on how we feel about that, but I would agree 100% that active game management is not designed to “help ecology”.

I don’t know the wording in the Canadian Regs, or those for any other country for that matter, but speaking specifically about Alaska, our wording, as I previously mentioned, is to “maximize sustainable yield” when talking about fish and game management. From that it is pretty obvious that the State of Alaska considers fish and game to be a resource, not entirely different from timber, minerals, oil, gas etc. and manages said resource accordingly.

That being said, it would appear that our (Alaska) philosophy is geared towards managing the fish and game for the maximum benefit of the combined human user groups… and not necessarily for the benefit of individual animals or even some specific species, while trying to maintain healthy reproductive populations of all species.
In short, I guess you could say that we consider them a renewable resource to be managed for our collective human benefit, as you have accurately pointed out that we are the primary predator in the equation.

Personally I am good with that type of management and think that it works pretty well. However I can see how that may come across as harsh or unethical to those whom are unaccustomed to hunting related activities or those that live in areas with only small resident populations of big game animals.

Alangaq · 13 November 2009, 19:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by prairie tuber

Not me. Tag soup is in my bowl at least as often as venison stew is.

Ha! We call "tag soup" the $2000 can of Spam......

I have ended up doing a lot more "armed camping" than successful hunting over the years....

Alangaq · 13 November 2009, 19:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by prairie tuber

I've got a fairly detailed explanation of it in post #8 of this thread;

http://www.rib.net/forum/showthread....083#post254083

nice set up! I will have to do some measuring to see how that would work out in my Zodiac... my bow skirt my make it difficult...

willk · 13 November 2009, 19:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alangaq

Personally I am good with that type of management and think that it works pretty well. However I can see how that may come across as harsh or unethical to those whom are unaccustomed to hunting related activities or those that live in areas with only small resident populations of big game animals.

I'm good with all that too, so long as we call it what it is. As you say, much the same as mining or forestry. The key to success is maintaining the supply of the resource without damaging the "donor system" beyond recognition.

The Euro-ribbers have been careful not to mention (may not be aware of) our own dirty secret - The Rape of the Ocean (aka Landing Quotas) that has been conducted under the auspices of the EU. You could lob a hand grenade into any piece of water from Gibralter to Bergen and have nothing float to the surface but a used condom and a jellyfish. Our Shame! I can only hope that we adopt something like the Icelandic Model* (where nothing caught is wasted), before it is too late.

_____________
*Icelandic Model - see below

prairie tuber · 13 November 2009, 20:07

What a cutie!!! She just needs a napkin to wipe the raw dolphin meat from her chin & she'll be cleaned up really nicely! Pictures like that sure make me want to visit Iceland!

willk · 13 November 2009, 20:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by prairie tuber

Pictures like that sure make me want to visit Iceland!

Oh, I knew that...

Bigmuz7 · 13 November 2009, 20:40

Go get um PT

I am personally getting fooked with the un controlled deer population in Scotland .. Monarch of the glen and all that pish..

when the fekkers run out in front of you at 2AM on an ungritted road in the middle of the scottish Highlands when its -5 .. they are a real hazard these day..s but no one seems to want to sort this out.

A full grown stag will put you off the road if you hit it.. and wreck your motor.. and plenty have died (humans) as a consequence

chewy · 13 November 2009, 20:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by prairie tuber

Ballast?

willk · 13 November 2009, 21:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by chewy

Ballast?

Antler box

chewy · 13 November 2009, 21:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by willk

Antler box

Just noticed its trying to hump the box!

Bigmuz7 · 13 November 2009, 21:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by chewy

Just noticed its trying to hump the box!

HEHE .. I think hes over it

prairie tuber · 13 November 2009, 22:24

Only this crowd can turn such an innocent thread into deer porn!

palehorse · 13 November 2009, 23:30

Tuber what a great thread and post Im glad you bagged a deer mate its a nice one. Also glad you got time off and it all fell in place for you. Now if you can just scrape up the coin & time for a gents hunt for geese in the spring time or moose in the fall with me here in Alaska as you have been a dear cyber friend and loads of help in the past have a great fall and get some of that deer made into some summer sauage and pick up some or about three kinds of cheese and molson and have a feast. Take care now thanks for the pm so I could enjoy your hunt too Kim

JSP · 14 November 2009, 09:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by prairie tuber

Only this crowd can turn such an innocent thread into deer porn!

Can't believe no ones made a Horny comment yet? ............

I'll get my studded collar and gimp mask and leave, sorry....

chewy · 14 November 2009, 09:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by prairie tuber

Only this crowd can turn such an innocent thread into deer porn!

You should have heard the conversation at work yesterday!

pathalla · 15 November 2009, 02:08

Well Tuber, that is some DAMN beautiful country... gets my blood flowing and makes me kinda wistful-sentimental softie that I am. Hell, I might drag one of my rifles out of the safe and go out side and... well, you know the rest of the story. Kind of a coincidence really that I read this thread today as when I walked outside this afternoon I saw two bucks in my back yard following a doe around. One six point and a eight point, no sport in shooting one of those as they are "surburban deer" and are accustomed to people. The six pointer was in the yard this morning as I left for the gym, he walked by me not 30 ft. away... Thats unusually close but they are chasing the ladies and that overides their normal caution. .35 Whelen huh? That's one hell of a deer caliber. Hope the boat survived the trip intact. Great Post!

alexm · 24 November 2009, 15:48

Just seen this thread, what a fantastic trip! As a keen ribber and deer stalker this trip is my idea of heaven!

Sadly there isn't really anywhere here in the UK you can mix boating with hunting though

I'm really going to have to get out to Canada some time.

Am I right in thinking the .35 Whelen is a necked up .30-06? I shoot a .243 on smaller deer species here in the UK, and a .30-06 on the large species.

Alex