Newbie Training Courses

[Boatozzy]

Hello everyone,

I have registered here as I am in the process of buying my first boat. I am starting small and on a budget and I am looking to buy a Category C SIB to use on inland waterways and inshore waters. I have read some threads on equipment and feel comfortable with what I need to buy. However I am unsure on the training I should consider getting involved in before I start. Here are the types of courses I am considering;

1. VHF Radio - this is something I know I defiantly need to do in order to obtain a license.

2. Level 2 Powerboat - I am not sure if this is essential?

3. Navigation - I am not sure if this is essential?

Are there any other courses I should consider? Any advice would be greatly appreciated

[Starovich]

RYA 2 definitely.
VHF OK, while a regulatory requirement, I would do the PB2 first.

Better you know what you're doing on the water and not need to use the VHF (even though you may have one on board), than dont know what you're doing but know the rules and reg of VHF useage, 16 emergency, or get one with a big red "oh $hit" button.

[Mikefule]

The RYA powerboat course will give you skills and confidence. There is nothing you can't pick up "the old fashioned way" but a course gives you all the information in a systematic way and in a controlled and safe environment. I did the Diver Cox course with BSAC and it helped a lot.

If you want to take a VHF, you need a licence, and in order to get the licence, you need to do the training. However, you can manage without a VHF radio in most circumstances. Of course you can use a VHF to call for help, and you can hear warnings on it, and if you are entering a harbour you can call ahead for permission. However, for launching off the beach and going across the bay to the headland, or doing a spot of fishing or waterskiing, you won't actually need it.

I'd always prioritise a good anchor and chain and lots of anchor line, and flares, and take a mobile phone in a waterproof cover before I spent the money on a VHF set. Remember that with an anchor, the more line that you have out, the better it will work and the boat will ride at anchor more comfortably too. Other safety kit includes a blunt-tipped rescue knife and an orange flag on a sectional pole. (Flares only burn for a few seconds, but you can wave a flag for ages.)

Navigation is a complex set of skills. A course will always help. However, in a fairly fast boat doing out and back trips within sight of land in decent conditions, you will not need formal navigational training. Understanding tide directions and speeds is more important at 5 knots in a tub than at 20 knots on the plane.

Buy a chart of your intended boating area. Get a feel for what is where. Take a compass. As you go out, keep looking back to land. Keep a constant eye on where you are. Use common sense. All that stuff with dividers and chart tables is a bit OTT in a SIB.

[GuyC]

Welcome to the forum.

VHF - I don't use my VHF that frequently but I found the course useful. You don't need a license if you are making a Mayday but if you want to call a marina, for example, you do. It's quite interesting and part of the hobby.

PB2 - It will teach you lots of stuff plus it is a good day out on the water. I think you would get more out of PB2 if you have spent some time in your own boat already.

Navigation - good fun and interesting. There are quite a few books around that will teach you navigation. Understanding charts and tides is always handy. A few on here will suggest OS maps when in a SIB but it is horses for courses.

Other courses - It depends on budget and your previous experiences. First aid / lifesaving would be reasonable high on my list. If you recover a drowned person, what do you do whilst waiting for help to arrive? If someone has a heart attack, what do you do?

It sounds like you've done some research already - I'm slightly intrigued by your Cat C reference.

[Boatozzy]

Thank you all for your comments. It's great hearing from the experienced. Interesting to hear views regarding the VHF radio. I will take the advice and focus on the PB2 first.

Regarding Category C, it relates to the Recreational Craft Directive. I am looking for something suitable for Inshore Waters.

[davkt]

The PB2 is great fun and while not compulsory will teach you loads in a very short time and give you confidence, the intermediate and advanced courses are great as well when you have a bit of experience and will also teach you loads about navigation and more importantly how to navigate in a powerboat at speed (and in the dark on the advanced course!)
I'd agree with GuyC about first aid, 1 or 2 days every 3 years leaves you much better prepared for if things go wrong. Oh and pretty much every proper SIB will be suitable for cat C waters.

[Poly]

As you are looking at Sibbing shop around for you PB2 course to find somewhere that includes a significant amount of tiller steer work...

[Max...]

As others have said - PB2 and VHF - both incredibly useful but above all great fun.

[Boatozzy]

Thanks everyone for the tips

Sib purchased and been familiarising myself with it in the garden today. Power Boat level 2 booked in for next weekend!!

[simonafloat]

I took my vhf course, was an absolute ballache finding a course anywhere near me though. And when I applied for my license I was not asked to provide any proof that I'd taken the course. Facepalm..

[simonafloat]

Don't forget, even if you take pb2 and vhf, if you ever go out with a crew then make sure they know how to take over if YOU have an accident. I always show the crew hiw to operate the outboard and hiw to use the dsc button on the vhf before we head out.

[ShinyShoe]

Originally Posted by GuyC

Welcome to the forum.

VHF - I don't use my VHF that frequently but I found the course useful. You don't need a license if you are making a Mayday but if you want to call a marina, for example, you do. It's quite interesting and part of the hobby.

PB2 - It will teach you lots of stuff plus it is a good day out on the water. I think you would get more out of PB2 if you have spent some time in your own boat already.

Navigation - good fun and interesting. There are quite a few books around that will teach you navigation. Understanding charts and tides is always handy. A few on here will suggest OS maps when in a SIB but it is horses for courses.

Other courses - It depends on budget and your previous experiences. First aid / lifesaving would be reasonable high on my list. If you recover a drowned person, what do you do whilst waiting for help to arrive? If someone has a heart attack, what do you do?

It sounds like you've done some research already - I'm slightly intrigued by your Cat C reference.

Originally Posted by Mikefule

The RYA powerboat course will give you skills and confidence. There is nothing you can't pick up "the old fashioned way" but a course gives you all the information in a systematic way and in a controlled and safe environment. I did the Diver Cox course with BSAC and it helped a lot.

Picking it up the "old fashioned way" probably means damaging a prop, possibly the boat and possibly some bad habits. Do the course!

Originally Posted by Mikefule

If you want to take a VHF, you need a licence, and in order to get the licence, you need to do the training. However, you can manage without a VHF radio in most circumstances. Of course you can use a VHF to call for help, and you can hear warnings on it, and if you are entering a harbour you can call ahead for permission. However, for launching off the beach and going across the bay to the headland, or doing a spot of fishing or waterskiing, you won't actually need it.

Probably not on purpose this is inaccurate.

To legally use a VHF to its maximum potential you need:
- A Certificate of Competence (i.e. the course [now partly online] and exam)
- A ships radio licence

You don't need either in an emergency. (I'd still encourage you to do it because (a) in an emergency the situation will be safer resolved if you give the right info (b) you are more likely to use the radio before its a full blown emergency if you think you aren't breaking rules.) That said - you'll not find a single case of a legitimate marine VHF user in the UK who has been prosecuted for not having the right paperwork.
If you are only using 37A/M1 or M2 channels you don't need either. (Marinas, boat clubs etc)

There is no reason not to get the ships licence -its free. For a Hand Held non-DSC it serves little purpose, but you might as well tick the box.

I'd disagree that you don't need it for crossing from beach to headland.

Originally Posted by Mikefule

I'd always prioritise a good anchor and chain and lots of anchor line, and flares, and take a mobile phone in a waterproof cover before I spent the money on a VHF set.

Welcome to the forum BTW. The beauty of this forum is you will get different opinions. I'd say that's a wrong opinion!

Anchor & Chain - yes. Flares - not convinced. You say you are going on inland water. Where? Does it have VHF Coastguard Cover? If not I'm not 100% convinced a VHF is that helpful. But Flares I remain to be convinced by at all. You need someone to see them, then call someone helpful to say they saw it, and then be able to describe where they saw it, then that someone to be able to send someone suitably helpful to find you and sort you out.

A mobile phone - will very much vary between where you are operating. I'd have a mobile over nothing, but if I had VHF coverage I'd have it before the phone. Rescue service can Direction Find a VHF, other boaters hear your cries for help. The radio battery will be less likely to die as a result of hunting for WiFi, Bluetooth (oops I forgot to switch them off) - or even just hunting for phone signal in poor reception areas.

While you can get a red button for a phone the one on a VHF is much more useful.

Other safety kit includes a blunt-tipped rescue knife and an orange flag on a sectional pole. (Flares only burn for a few seconds, but you can wave a flag for ages.)

At least with an orange smoke flare people might realise the Sh17 is hitting the fan. I have an orange survival bag in my "stuff" if I'm desperate it will become a flag.

[GuyC]

Originally Posted by Boatozzy

Regarding Category C, it relates to the Recreational Craft Directive. I am looking for something suitable for Inshore Waters.

Slightly off topic but the RCD categorise craft from Cat A - Ocean to Cat D - Sheltered Waters.

MSN 1776, which is a MCA publication categorises inshore waters from Cat A - Canals to Cat D - tidal estuaries with a less than 2m wave height.

Southampton Water, Portsmouth Harbour are Cat C (1776) and the Solent is Cat D (1776). As soon as you go outside the Needles, for example, you are at sea and attract all the sea going requirements.

It would be nice if there was a consolidated set of requirements but I guess that is half the fun!

[Poly]

Originally Posted by GuyC

MSN 1776, which is a MCA publication categorises inshore waters from Cat A - Canals to Cat D - tidal estuaries with a less than 2m wave height.



Southampton Water, Portsmouth Harbour are Cat C (1776) and the Solent is Cat D (1776). As soon as you go outside the Needles, for example, you are at sea and attract all the sea going requirements.

Only if you are operating commercially otherwise the MCA's view on the flavour of the water is irrelevant to any requirements. Likewise the RCD doesn't actually restrict you in any way it tells you what the designer intended it to be used in. But actually a cat C boat MiGHT be perfectly fine under Cat B conditions but the designer/builder didn't fancy the extra paperwork and test costs.

[Mikefule]

Originally Posted by ShinyShoe

I'd disagree that you don't need it for crossing from beach to headland.



Welcome to the forum BTW. The beauty of this forum is you will get different opinions. I'd say that's a wrong opinion!

Thank you - joined a couple of years ago but have recently come back to posting more often in the forum. Early retirement and too much time on my hands!

The reference to "beach to headland" was intended to be a sort of descriptive shorthand for the common scenario of zipping about within clear sight of the beach where you launched. If something goes wrong in these circumstances, the first priority is then the rocks. My experience is that many (most?) small boat owners are very bad at anchoring, often with the line tight and at a steep angle rather than a catenary curve.

This forum is full of people who have done Adventurous Stuff in boats, but I think most SIB use across the population is probably limited to very short and unadventurous trips within half a mile or so of the launch point. This is why my general advice to any new boater is "buy the unglamorous basics" such as an anchor, chain and long warp, a flag to wave, and some flares, rather than the more glamorous but less immediately useful radio. It's like buying a decent door lock and window locks to keep the burglars out before you spend £1,000 on a fancy burglar alarm.

That said, I've just done some checking and I see I am a bit out of date. A simple hand held VHF is now available for about the same price as an inshore flare pack.

My own experience is around 25-30 years of sibbing, but wth long gaps. I used to be a regular cox on dive club RIBs. I have done many full days inshore solo in my own SIBs (I have owned 3). My most used safety equipment so far has been the anchor.

I passed my VHF training 20+ years ago but I have never got round to buying a radio. Maybe I should. Later this year my wife and I will be acquiring a sailing dinghy and although this will have a Torqueedo auxiliary outboard this may be the time for me to buy a radio.

[ShinyShoe]

Originally Posted by Mikefule

The reference to "beach to headland" was intended to be a sort of descriptive shorthand for the common scenario of zipping about within clear sight of the beach where you launched. <snip>

This forum is full of people who have done Adventurous Stuff in boats, but I think most SIB use across the population is probably limited to very short and unadventurous trips within half a mile or so of the launch point.

I'm sure I've seen stats that most car accidents occur close to home. I suspect the same is true for most boating accidents. Yes an incident at 70MPH on the outside lane of the motorway will be serious - but also rare. Yes an incident in a boat 70miles off shore will be serious but also rare. Much more likely to have an issue just nipping half a mile off the beach. If you left people on the beach watching you - they can call for help for you. If its a quiet day and you didn't leave anyone ashore its not as easy as walking home to get the bus.

This is why my general advice to any new boater is "buy the unglamorous basics" such as an anchor, chain and long warp, a flag to wave, and some flares, rather than the more glamorous but less immediately useful radio. It's like buying a decent door lock and window locks to keep the burglars out before you spend £1,000 on a fancy burglar alarm.

I'm with you on the anchor. I'm sceptical on the flag but if its cheap hey ho. Its the flares vs the VHF. Like you say - HH VHF is same price as flare pack. Flare pack works till you've burned them all up and no-one saw it or no-one knew what to do or what it was when they did see it. Flare pack needs replaced every 3 years. My HH VHF is 13 years old and still going strong. (Was £129 then).

Bear in mind a flare is a very hot burning mass. You are on a boat made of rubber and have 20+L of petrol probably only 2-3m from you. The sh17 is well and truely hitting the fan for me to have to ignite a burning stick and hold it in my hand!

To give another reason why I'd prefer a VHF to visual signals. Virtually the only reason a SIB will need assistance is engine failure of some form (engine, prop, electrics, fuel). As you say - put the hook out and it shouldn't be a disaster. But if you can't fix the fault and are not able to paddle home from where you are (wind/tide) you might want a tow. Waving orange flags and firing off flares tends to get lots of resource thrown at it. Lifeboats, Choppers, Police boats - whatever is available. When a wee call on 16 could have picked up a tow from a passing anyone with a bit less commossion.

[Mikefule]

Good arguments well put. I think you've convinced me. Certainly interesting food for thought.

I may just have been in the mindset of "we managed without VHF in my day".

[GuyC]

Originally Posted by Poly

Only if you are operating commercially otherwise the MCA's view on the flavour of the water is irrelevant to any requirements. Likewise the RCD doesn't actually restrict you in any way it tells you what the designer intended it to be used in. But actually a cat C boat MiGHT be perfectly fine under Cat B conditions but the designer/builder didn't fancy the extra paperwork and test costs.

I think I probably meant that it would be good if the categories were harmonised across the various rule sets.

[Boatozzy]

Hi all,

I completed my Power Boat Level 2 today

Boat all ready and kit sorted to take her out next weekend! Just need to sort out the insurance (I have studied this on another thread). Thanks for the tips on the kit

I have any other question on fuel? How do you guys manage this? I have an 11.3L fuel tank and a 10HP engine which will burn around 3.8LPH at full throttle (I don't plan on using full throttle). Do you take spare fuel onboard a SIB?

Thanks

[Fenlander]

What is your OB... 2 or 4 stroke? Many new OBs these days only come with a 12l tank... even my 20hp. I upgraded to a 25l but pottering around the Blackwater you will probably be fine but no harm in carrying 5l spare.

The two most economic speeds for your OB will be at around 3-4kts and then just on the plane at perhaps 11-12kts. The heaviest consumption is flat out and just before you plane while pushing a wall of water.

If you keep to 11-12kts on the plane you will probably burn nearer 2LPH.