Honwave high pressure floor repair advice?

[Sailpower]

Hi, I've has a 3.8m Honwave for a couple of years - its the air floor model.
Generally its very good but I've got a niggle - a very small air leak from the corner of the part of the floor that extends beyond the transom, like a trim tab?

Because its on a corner its been virtually impossible to fix - I cant get a single piece of PVC patch to cover it and no matter how I cut sections and overlap them to make a seal, the air finds its way out. If i try to fix it with any pressure in the floor it finds a way past the patch.

Its annoying as one half of the floor loses its pressure a bit, enough to spoil the underwater shape of the floor and subsequent issues with motor cavitation etc etc.
What I feel like I need is a flexible patch like a push bike patch to go over the corner first and then re- enforce it with the PVC material.

Has anyone got any ideas? Being filled with the filaments in the floor section means that even using a liquid seal from inside is difficult to do and get the liquid to the right place.

The picture isn't of my 3.8m but shows the position of the leak.

[Fenlander]

An image of your actual leak area would help... but what glue, repair material and prep method have you used?

[willk]

http://www.rib.net/forum/f50/introdu...tml#post396052

[Max...]

I've no idea if this may work and obviously you would want to trial on a scrap piece of material but would a 'plastic' welding with soldering iron technique work? You would have to be really careful to avoid making it worse but I've used this on various things from Pelicases to HiFi fascias.

'How-to's" on YT etc but you feed in a donor material and use the soldering iron to 'weld' together. Yellow plastic rawlpugs worked great on my Pelicase. As I say pretty easy to **** it up on a thin PVC boat but seeing as they weld PVC boats in many places I thought I'd chuck the idea in there.

[Sailpower]

Originally Posted by Fenlander

An image of your actual leak area would help... but what glue, repair material and prep method have you used?

Thanks for the reply - the sib is kept rolled up so it isn't too easy to get a photo - the image I posted gives the general idea where the red ring is, but essentially its where the three surfaces of the 'trim tab' meet, bottom surface, side and back. The side and back curve around the corner rather than coming to a 90 degree corner. Part of the problem is the fact it changes shape when its inflated, but the air pushes past the glue and patch if i get the shape right by inflating the floor..
I agree a photo would be ideal.

I prepped the area with MEK and some abrasion before patching, then used two part adhesive and PVC fabric patches. I think it was Ribstore products I used.On other areas I've done in the past this has worked a charm, on a flat surface it wouldn't be an issue.

[Sailpower]

Originally Posted by Max...

I've no idea if this may work and obviously you would want to trial on a scrap piece of material but would a 'plastic' welding with soldering iron technique work? You would have to be really careful to avoid making it worse but I've used this on various things from Pelicases to HiFi fascias.

'How-to's" on YT etc but you feed in a donor material and use the soldering iron to 'weld' together. Yellow plastic rawlpugs worked great on my Pelicase. As I say pretty easy to **** it up on a thin PVC boat but seeing as they weld PVC boats in many places I thought I'd chuck the idea in there.

Thanks Max, I've done that on rotomoulded HDPE hulls without making too much of a mess - sounds like a high risk technique on PVC fabric but it may well come to that !

[Fenlander]

Oh.... sounds like you've had a good attempt at it.

Have you looked at post #46 on the link Willk gave earlier...

http://www.rib.net/forum/f50/introdu...tml#post396052

Is yours a worse area than that to tackle?

BTW you don't need to sand PVC (shouldn't?)

[Sailpower]

Originally Posted by Fenlander

Oh.... sounds like you've had a good attempt at it.

Have you looked at post #46 on the link Willk gave earlier...

http://www.rib.net/forum/f50/introdu...tml#post396052

Is yours a worse area than that to tackle?

BTW you don't need to sand PVC (shouldn't?)

Thanks, I didn't spot the link in Nashers post. I've had a look at it now and yes it's very similar - the curves on mine are a bit tighter and its all part of the boat - would be nice to take the floor out to work on! I would like to see where I can get some thinner material from to patch it initially - i was thinking cycle puncture repair but thinner PVC would be OK. Previous repair was a lot of overlapping 'orange segment' shaped pieces around the curve but the material doesn't want to fold to tight curves so the air gets out between the joins.
Its only a tiny bubble or two per second but after a day the pressure has dropped and needs pumping up again on that floor half.

[Sailpower]

Originally Posted by willk

http://www.rib.net/forum/f50/introdu...tml#post396052

Thanks - sorry i didn't spot that as a link at first! very helpful.

[willk]

You're welcome.

If it was mine, I would VERY CAREFULLY prepare the area with MEK. MEK is the death knell for PVC glued joints so don't make contact with them. I'd then syringe inject a tiny bit of urethane sealant (aquaseal or similar) into the hole/s and over them slightly too (forming a dumbbell shaped spot of sealant inside and outside the hole). Once that was set I'd inflate to a very low pressure and carry out the Nasher Repair with a very fine PVC fabric, overlapping the next time with more. Correct prep/glue/conditions/technique are all important in SIB repair. The UK resellers have good advice on their websites.

[Sailpower]

Originally Posted by willk

You're welcome.

If it was mine, I would VERY CAREFULLY prepare the area with MEK. MEK is the death knell for PVC glued joints so don't make contact with them. I'd then syringe inject a tiny bit of urethane sealant (aquaseal or similar) into the hole/s and over them slightly too (forming a dumbbell shaped spot of sealant inside and outside the hole). Once that was set I'd inflate to a very low pressure and carry out the Nasher Repair with a very fine PVC fabric, overlapping the next time with more. Correct prep/glue/conditions/technique are all important in SIB repair. The UK resellers have good advice on their websites.

Good call - hadn't thought about Aquaseal I bet that would hold the pressure as you say. So basically some un renforced PVC (without the fabric layer)would be OK as the first layer(s) with the 'proper' stuff over the top for strength.

How about removing the previous patches - been in place for maybe 18 months. Warm up with an air gun and some careful application of MEK?

[Sailpower]

Thanks folks - I'll try the aquaseal and patch combo and report back.

I notice a few Aerotec owners here - I've been tempted a few times, but is it worth getting an older one or is there a 'sell by date'? Theres one on ebay but it looks well used. I saw one a month or so ago but the transom had begun to part from the tubes - maybe an outboard too large for the rating?

The lightness would be an improvement on the Honwave, and the weird 'cranked' wheels are a fiddle to drop and lift.

[Fenlander]

>>>notice a few Aerotec owners here... worth getting an older one or is there a 'sell by date'? Theres one on ebay but it looks well used. I saw one a month or so ago but the transom had begun to part from the tubes - maybe an outboard too large for the rating?

The one on Ebay at the moment for £495 has obvious signs of transom/tube glue failure and possibly past re-glue attempts to fix previously.

There was one a while back with serious problems in this area and I think the guy claimed he'd overpowered it on holiday... hmmm they're rated to 25hp so I think it's unlikely it was anything other than glue failure.

It's a very personal choice as to the age where you might start to worry about glue issues.... and how you price accordingly. I usually say anything over 10/12yrs look very carefully at the floor/tube and transom/tube seams. Not saying they all fail at that age but just sensible to be wary when buying.

I've owned one at 18yrs old that had been repaired in the past and needed me to do more. I was so impressed with that I bought a new one to give me a very long buffer before any glue failure might be expected.

Two dealers I spoke to gave them an 18yr life which does seem to fit with the work needed on the 18yr old one I owned.

Of course that 18yr life would be assuming once the glue failed in a few areas you gave up on it. If you are happy to do DIY repairs they can safely be kept going a good bit longer.

Have a look at this thread on my old one... all gets a bit interesting from post #31 onwards...

http://www.rib.net/forum/f50/aerotec...e-68545-2.html

And this might be of interest...

http://www.rib.net/forum/f50/old-use...ons-68875.html

[Max...]

Can you post a much larger close-up pic - impossible to see any detail on the thumbnail.

[simonafloat]

I have successfully repaired the rear corners of my aerotec floor. I used the technique you describe, i.e. cutting segments to get around the curves. Worked fine for me. I might add an extra layer this winter, trying not to overlap the cuts. Apparently its very important to carry out the repairs in a constant temperature/humidity environment. Which happened to be the dining room table!

simon

[Max...]

Originally Posted by Sailpower

Thanks folks - I'll try the aquaseal and patch combo and report back.

I notice a few Aerotec owners here - I've been tempted a few times, but is it worth getting an older one or is there a 'sell by date'? Theres one on ebay but it looks well used. I saw one a month or so ago but the transom had begun to part from the tubes - maybe an outboard too large for the rating?

The lightness would be an improvement on the Honwave, and the weird 'cranked' wheels are a fiddle to drop and lift.

Nice outfit with ideal engine ending (that was flagged up in the SIB's spotted on eBay topic) in a couple of hours should give current ideal of value. Engine is worth £1100+, trailer say £300, wheels £150 - you can see what a bargain it could end up...

Bombard Aerotec 380 inflatable with 15 hp Mariner engine, Indespensible trailer | eBay

More details on it below:

Boat & engine both purchased 2006 from Glaslyn Marine Porth Madoc - Bombard, Avon & Zodiac dealer -still operating, invoice dated 02.03 2006, delivered 14.04.2006. Trailer ordered from Indespension and collected from their Poole depot 13.04.06 - invoice same date. Accessories mainly from Saltern Marine in Poole.

-Engine SN OP426659, serviced 24/11/07, 24/10/11, 7 25/09/13, invoices available. Very light usage say max 5 times each year at 5 hours max , say 200 -250 hours running time in total, only 6 hours last year. Engine flushed thro with fresh water after each use and whole outfit hosed down again with fresh water. Engine started including with cooling water during off season each year. Some small superficial marks to engine hood but no dents or adverse conditions.No known issues and engine appears to be in very good order . Sorry no photos of engine, ID etc-boat in dorset I am in Nottingham until 15 june.
- Boat - hull in good clean order and no leaks / repairs, aerotec deck had a slight leak in 2007/ 8 and taken to professional who tested-found a slight damage-and repaired - cause likely to be me with anchor on first use-practice changed and no problems since. Transom etc all in good condition

- Trailer &with winch all in good order - both hub bearings replaced 19.08.13 - effect of salt water - no salt water launchings since.