DUX inflatable boat - Page 2

vpolonsk · 20 June 2005, 02:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by codprawn

Just a thought - would a big kite tow a RIB??? Maybe not a big one but an inflatable dinghy??? Sure it would - have I just invented a new sport??? Or maybe wedge yourself into a dougnut type inflatable???

i hate to burst your buble , but you're not the first to get a simular idea. people do all kinds of things with kites. a big enough kite could even tow a mid-size sail boat.
check out http://www.kitefilm.com and their "Outrigger canoe-kiting on Maui"
film ( http://www.kitefilm.com/grafikk/cover_canofilm.jpg )

a rib could definitely be towed - the question is: could it tow it upwind? and will it be stable enough?

codprawn · 20 June 2005, 02:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by vpolonsk

i hate to burst your buble , but you're not the first to get a simular idea. people do all kinds of things with kites. a big enough kite could even tow a mid-size sail boat.
check out http://www.kitefilm.com and their "Outrigger canoe-kiting on Maui"
film ( http://www.kitefilm.com/grafikk/cover_canofilm.jpg )

a rib could definitely be towed - the question is: could it tow it upwind? and will it be stable enough?

A big enough kite??? Thought they were called spinnakers!!!!!

As to towing a rib - we will see........

vpolonsk · 20 June 2005, 02:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by codprawn

A big enough kite??? Thought they were called spinnakers!!!!!

As to towing a rib - we will see........

kites and spinnakers (sails) have totally different aerodynamics. check out the links..
also can search for kiteforum.com for any questions.

vpolonsk · 20 June 2005, 06:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by prairie tuber

Polyurethane perhaps? I was told PVC sometime ago. See the other thread on hypalon, PVC & polyurethane.

read a bunch of threads from this forum about materials.
this US Navy paper looks very legid and it recommends to switch from hypalone to urethane:
http://www.wing.com/PUvHYPE%204.13.05.pdf

what is your research based on?

vpolonsk · 20 June 2005, 07:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by codprawn

A big enough kite??? Thought they were called spinnakers!!!!!

by the way, kite used in this video is 50 square meters: http://www.kitefilm.com/grafikk/cover_canofilm.jpg

i guess this compares to sizes of spinnakers . however, when you fly a kite you generate enormous amount of power by moving it around.

i bet you, you can even get a 3 meter foil stunt kite and get going in 15-20 knots on a RIB.. doubt you'd be able to go upwind though.

if you get a 16 meter LEI (inflatable) kite, you can probably go upwind just by using an oar to edge. i would be concerned about the stability of the RIB in this case (dont know much about it yet). once i get my RIB, i'll try it out and let you know.. one thing is for sure - this will never be more fun then kitesurfing.

prairie tuber · 20 June 2005, 13:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by vpolonsk

read a bunch of threads from this forum about materials.
this US Navy paper looks very legid and it recommends to switch from hypalone to urethane:
http://www.wing.com/PUvHYPE%204.13.05.pdf

what is your research based on?

That study is now over 12 years old and the recommendation of PU was based partly because of greater abrasion resistance, partly because of a quicker adhesive curing time, but mainly because of greater puncture resistance of PU. The U.S navy could have easily specified PU for all of their combat rubber raiding crafts (CCRCs) which are hypalon futura 470 commandos made by Zodiac, but they didn't. Why? - I don't know, but this is what I do know;

a) A new bullet proofing technology known as 'armorflate' can be used in conjuction with hypalon, it is far more puncture proof than PU.

b) While PU adhesives may cure quicker, they also crystalize and break down far quicker.

c) The worlds two foremost retubing outfits, Paul Tilley and Olmtec tubing, overwhelming recommend hypalon for retubing. Paul Tilley has stated that neither PVC or PU have even close to the life expectancy of hypalon (see this thread http://www.rib.net/forum/showthread....5&page=2&pp=10 ). Paul has dealt extensively with all 3 materials and won't even warranty work done on PVC or PU.

d) There are Hypalon watercraft built during WWII that are still in use in BC.

vpolonsk · 20 June 2005, 16:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by codprawn

As to towing a rib - we will see........

here you go:

http://kitesurfingschool.org/faqs.ht...ith%20a%20boat

codprawn · 20 June 2005, 20:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by vpolonsk

here you go:

http://kitesurfingschool.org/faqs.ht...ith%20a%20boat

Very interesting - thanks!!!

vpolonsk · 21 June 2005, 02:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by prairie tuber

That study is now over 12 years old and the recommendation of PU was based partly because of greater abrasion resistance, partly because of a quicker adhesive curing time, but mainly because of greater puncture resistance of PU. The U.S navy could have easily specified PU for all of their combat rubber raiding crafts (CCRCs) which are hypalon futura 470 commandos made by Zodiac, but they didn't. Why? - I don't know, but this is what I do know;

a) A new bullet proofing technology known as 'armorflate' can be used in conjuction with hypalon, it is far more puncture proof than PU.

b) While PU adhesives may cure quicker, they also crystalize and break down far quicker.

c) The worlds two foremost retubing outfits, Paul Tilley and Olmtec tubing, overwhelming recommend hypalon for retubing. Paul Tilley has stated that neither PVC or PU have even close to the life expectancy of hypalon (see this thread http://www.rib.net/forum/showthread....5&page=2&pp=10 ). Paul has dealt extensively with all 3 materials and won't even warranty work done on PVC or PU.

d) There are Hypalon watercraft built during WWII that are still in use in BC.

hmm.. i've been seeing a lot of contradicting statements regarding this topic now..
http://www.cimarineusa.com/index.htm these guys claim to be building hypalon boats in 2006, but i need one now ..

but so far i havent found any DUX type boats made with hypalon.. everything is made with PVC or PU.

prairie tuber · 21 June 2005, 06:38

I definitely would avoid PVC, as for PU, you're right there are differing opinions, enough to make me pretty leery of it. If DUX offered a hypalon option, I'd be quite interested in the PD550. I recieve this email response from Les at Xtreme inflatables today:

"We are planning to implement Hypalon boats, and have some prototypes in the works, currently all boats for sale are PVC. Initially we will likely only produce the Xtreme XL or Cat models in Hypalon, as they account for the majority of our sales. An XL460 is $4,060 in PVC, and will be around $5,500 in Hypalon version. We do plan on an 18' Hypalon and PVC boat, probably available in the spring of 2006. Exact specifications and pricing are yet to be finalized.

Thank you,
Les Valsquier
C.I. Marine USA, Inc.
3409 McDougall Ave.
Everett, WA 98201
www.cimarineusa.com
lesv@cimarineusa.com
Office: 425.252.4089
Fax : 425.252.5111
Cell: 425.971.4999"

One more idea - You might be able to pickup a used US Navy CCRC (4.7m zodiac futura hull with 1800 decitex hypalon) through a government auction for about a fifth of what they would go for new. Those things are extremely well built (very different from zodiac's recreational futuras in terms of durability).

Good luck,

Mark

prairie tuber · 23 June 2005, 03:40

Any confirmation from DUX on the fabric?

vpolonsk · 28 June 2005, 02:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by prairie tuber

Any confirmation from DUX on the fabric?

Was away for a couple of days and didnt get a chance to reply to this.

Spoke with Tom (the owner of Dux boats)

Here's what he said:

- tubes are made in 3 layers
- PVC (high grade) is inside
- nylon (UV resistant) is in the middle
- urethane is on the outside
- urethane is better then hypalon and can stand the toughest conditions (hot or cold)

what do you think?

-v

prairie tuber · 29 June 2005, 06:09

Can he provide you with references of clients who have used these boats heavily for 15-20 years or more?

toby.budd · 16 October 2005, 16:31

Hey, sorry not been on the forum for a lonnnnnnnggg time, but it's raining, threse no wind to kite, I have just sold my boat and it's still raing so thought would catch up on RIB Net.

Zap Cats great boats and for what you want ideal. Have quiclky looked through this forum and would say the following.

Never, ever buy a zap cat, GRX or other high performance inflatable in Hypalon, it stretches to much. The differance at speed is incredable, no matter how much air you put in hypalon it will still stretch and means the boat moves and bends, not good, this does not matter on a RIB because the hull provides the longditudonal stiffness but on a Zap Cat it is provided by the tubes. Hypaolon is better, more abrasive resistant, better in UV but it is to flexible for a Zap Cat type boat where rigidity and stiffness is paramount.

You dont need a big engine, 50HP is grea, fast and fun, but a 2 cylinder 30hp will still provide enough power to wake board, take 3 people on the plane etc and provide good performance and will way less.

Trailer, don't bother trying to pack away, it takes forever, once or twice a season is ok but not, ever every day.

Fit wheels to the ransom so you can lift the front and roll it up the beach and launch in surf, the ones that rotate up in the air when your in the water. There a loads of zap cats around, there simple just look at the tube material quality, seams and areas where there is abrasion, around the floor boards especially.

They are good in surf, better tahn any other boat in teh world so if you teach kiting in the surf they are ideal. If not consider a Gemini GRX type with closed transom and wrap around bow with same highjackers as a zap cat, same performance andc more passenger frindly but not as good in gale surf conditions.

Good for kite teaching, I would add some flexible plastic tubing in an arc, longditudinally to stop lines getting caught on crew and engine, but they have a big flat deck which is ideal, are manouverable and low to the water as well.

Dinners being served, any questions post them here and i will reply.

Toby