What will happen if i exceed max towing weight on the car?

HUMBER P4VWL · 18 November 2009, 19:47

We have a trailer with max gross kg of 1500kg i think, payload of 1100kg i think. This is just about ok for our boat for occasional use. It was was originally on a twin axle trailer with higher kg but for ease of manouvering etc, changed over.

The boat is a 6.3 ocean pro. I think is 630kg.
With 175 opti, 195kg
Extra bench seat and other stuff 100kg
140 litres of fuel 140kg
Trailer 400kg

Total 1465kg so should be ok

A BMW 330D 2004 estate will tow max weight of 1800kg. If the weight was exceeded (let's assume it is)....what happens? Or is it just illegal.

Id guess the newer 3.0D engine from '03 is more than enough to pull it with 204bhp 410nm torque. Not much else has more power and it is rear wheel drive.

Downhilldai · 18 November 2009, 19:55

Been to the weighbridge?

HUMBER P4VWL · 18 November 2009, 19:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Downhilldai

Been to the weighbridge?

Would only be towing to nw wales from anglesey. Think the nearest weighbridge is by chester.

Mollers · 18 November 2009, 20:01

I'd get the rig on a weighbridge, you may be shocked.

Max towing weights are there for obvious reasons. Exceeding the limit as stated by the vehicle or trailer manufacturer could potentially get you into a pile of bother should you have a serious accident. If VOSA then discover that you're the wrong side of 1500kg they wouldn't be too impressed and your insurance company even less so.

Poly · 18 November 2009, 20:03

Your concerns in no particular order are stopping, prosecution, damaging the car (e.g. clutch?).

Does your "boat weight" include the engine?

Downhilldai · 18 November 2009, 20:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Polwart

Does your "boat weight" include the engine?

Quote:

Originally Posted by HUMBER P4VWL

With 175 opti, 195kg

I wouldn't be too sure though:

Quote:

Originally Posted by HUMBER P4VWL

trailer with max gross kg of 1500kg i think, payload of 1100kg i think. .....

6.3 ocean pro. I think is 630kg.

Mollers · 18 November 2009, 20:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Downhilldai

I wouldn't be too sure though:

Good point. A 150 Opti is 199kg.

HUMBER P4VWL · 18 November 2009, 20:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Polwart

Your concerns in no particular order are stopping, prosecution, damaging the car (e.g. clutch?).

Does your "boat weight" include the engine?

No. the engine is on top. We only tow it twice a year. To anglesey...and back. It is moored all season. Pulled it with the range rover and it was delivered from south of birmingham. Went fine. We were advised at point of sale it was for "launching purposes only" as we asked for the single axle trailer. Jono g uses the same trailer with the same boat all the time.

I was considering a couple of outings perhaps to pwllheli and cardigan bay a couple of times. Was debating a 330d estate and wondered how it would get on towing it. Clutch will be fine, prosecution i understand. Stopping i presume is the problem.

Question is more around what happens physically if the trailed weight is over the cars limit? Is it just stopping as the car is too light? The trailer is braked.

Mollers · 18 November 2009, 20:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by HUMBER P4VWL

Question is more around what happens physically if the trailed weight is over the cars limit? Is it just stopping as the car is too light? The trailer is braked.

If the brakes work and you drive sensibly you shouldn't have too many problems.

A marine engineer once towed my 2t+ sports cuddy a couple of miles with a Fiesta van.

Cypman · 18 November 2009, 20:23

The BMw will tow the rig OK, I towed an Ocean-Pro 6.3m with a petrol Honda CRV and it was great.
I agree with the others that a trip to the weighbridge is your best option, based on my boat I would expect you to be over the 1500kg but under the 1800kg limit. It is surprising how batteries, anchors etc,etc add to the weight.

HUMBER P4VWL · 18 November 2009, 20:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mollers

If the brakes work and you drive sensibly you shouldn't have too many problems.

A marine engineer towed my 2t+ sports cuddy a couple of miles with a Fiesta van.

Yeah fair point. The trailer is new and well serviced so brakes are fine.

J S · 18 November 2009, 20:37

Paul Iv towed your sistership the Orange 6.3 you did your course on all over North Wales without any problems. The boat and trailer go fine together. This was towing with my Landy though. I dont see any problems with your bmw towing it as it has the capacity one thing i would say is check the noseweight as it might be fine when towing with a Rangie but not with the bmw.

James

HUMBER P4VWL · 18 November 2009, 20:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by J S

Paul Iv towed your sistership the Orange 6.3 you did your course on all over North Wales without any problems. The boat and trailer go fine together. This was towing with my Landy though. I dont see any problems with your bmw towing it as it has the capacity one thing i would say is check the noseweight as it might be fine when towing with a Rangie but not with the bmw.

James

Cheers James, good to hear. May be best to fill up with the 140kg of fuel on arrival then as it is fore of the axle. Might see you next season round your end rather than spending 80 quid on the round the peninsula and back to even start for cardigan bay.

Havent got the bmw yet, need an estate or bigger with 30+ mpg for work, comfy and 0-90 in less than about 10/11 secs. Only got about 10k though. BMW X5 diesel 04 onward is out. pre then and the fuel economy is crap as it is the older oil burner engine. Debating old Disco, but a sooooo sloooow. Jeep or Merc 4x4 have crap reviews. Quite stumped. This could be another thread!

Poly · 18 November 2009, 21:27

Quote:

We only tow it twice a year.

thats a shit excuse. You only need to tow it once to kill someone. and

Quote:

Jono g uses the same trailer with the same boat all the time.

is not any better.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mollers

If the brakes work and you drive sensibly you shouldn't have too many problems.

A marine engineer once towed my 2t+ sports cuddy a couple of miles with a Fiesta van.

it would be wrong to extrapolate from his good fortune that this is good practice.

Quote:

The trailer is new and well serviced so brakes are fine.

based on your numbers though the car is fine, the problem is quite possibly your trailer regardless of which car you use. And marine trailer brakes (especially those used infrequently) are rarely in 100% condition... does the wt limit on the axle refer only to the carrying capacity or do the brakes also have a wt spec?

I am not saying that this combination is unsafe, but a wise man once said to me "if you have to ask, then its probably not a good idea".

Mollers · 18 November 2009, 21:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Polwart

it would be wrong to extrapolate from his good fortune that this is good practice.

I agree.

Personally, I prefer a hefty margin of safety. As you say, boat trailer brakes are not to be relied upon.

HUMBER P4VWL · 19 November 2009, 08:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mollers

I agree.

Personally, I prefer a hefty margin of safety. As you say, boat trailer brakes are not to be relied upon.

I'd agree with that theory. However I think the bare boat with engine is legal.
Boat 630kg
engine 195kg
bench seat max 100kg
trailer 400kg
total 1325kg

if I filled it with fuel, 140litres or kg, then chucked on loads of kit then perhaps it would go over.

My question still is though, what happens if the trailed weight is more than the vehicles limit? (not the legal consequences but the physival ones)

mdt · 19 November 2009, 08:39

Any increase in weight in a vehicle will limit its ability to slow when you hit the brakes. Your 330d will be harder to stop when you have 5 big adults sat in it then when it is just you. Sticking a sodding big boat etc on the back will make the job slowing down even harder. The fact it is fitted with brakes will help but the distance it will take to stop will be increased massively.

Yes you can and will take it slower when towing to help offset this increase in stopping distance. But as we all know it is often not what we do when driving but what others do and we have to react to. At the end of the day old granny pulls out having not seen you, you can’t stop and go into her with a rig that is found out to be over weight I fear you will be the one getting the talking to by the boys in blue.

But as I am the one who hates it when other take the moral high ground, the above is just a word of warning….. From a guy who has towed over weight trailers, and who has said he will never do it next time.

9D280 · 19 November 2009, 08:59

...stopping is one thing, but the bigger risk is the tail wagging the dog - how often do you do a straight line E- stop on a flat, level road? Cornering can become interesting too.... Also your Opti - is that dry weight? I bet it is........

There's a reason that a max weight is specified!

Also a 6m rib on the back of a 3- series beemer is going to look out of proportion. That will make you a more likely target for a bored partol car, who will then find you are exceeding the legal towing limit of your car. Best case you get a few points. Worst case, you loose your license. (look for the thread about ligting boards & being stopped!) Either way I can garantee they won't let you tow it any further, regardless of where you happen to have been stopped.

Bottom line is that regardless of the physics / engineering of the towing dynamics - they are irrelevant when there are bits of paper saying "max" on them. As has been said before, nobody will have greater pleasure in pointing this out to you then your insurers...

bedajim · 19 November 2009, 09:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by HUMBER P4VWL

I'd agree with that theory. However I think the bare boat with engine is legal.
Boat 630kg
engine 195kg
bench seat max 100kg
trailer 400kg
total 1325kg

if I filled it with fuel, 140litres or kg, then chucked on loads of kit then perhaps it would go over.

My question still is though, what happens if the trailed weight is more than the vehicles limit? (not the legal consequences but the physival ones)

On the farm we tow the bail trailers normally behind a bloody great big tractor and you don't really know it's there until you want to stop, in a straight line it's fine you just keep moving until you hit something and it doesn't really hurt the tractor, on a bend you find out what the grab handles are for in the cab

Scale that down and you've got your car and rig!

Or get a flat bed trailer and stick a couple of tonnes of sand in it and go for a play on a private road (with plenty of room)

Also the weight of your rig seems to be very under estimated, do you take your anchor & chain, batteries, pods, aframe, console, etc out every time you tow? Does the dry weight include tubes etc

Jim

HUMBER P4VWL · 19 November 2009, 13:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by bedajim

On the farm we tow the bail trailers normally behind a bloody great big tractor and you don't really know it's there until you want to stop, in a straight line it's fine you just keep moving until you hit something and it doesn't really hurt the tractor, on a bend you find out what the grab handles are for in the cab

Scale that down and you've got your car and rig!

Or get a flat bed trailer and stick a couple of tonnes of sand in it and go for a play on a private road (with plenty of room)

Also the weight of your rig seems to be very under estimated, do you take your anchor & chain, batteries, pods, aframe, console, etc out every time you tow? Does the dry weight include tubes etc

Jim

Weight was from humber for a set up pre engine. So tubes, a frame, console, 2 jockeys etc are included. Only other things on board are Bench seat(accounted for) Engine (accounted for) a small anchor with not much chain. GPS. fish finder. Radio. and two batteries. I'm happy with that on the trailer.

Just trying to find a relatively quick estate or 4x4 that is quite comfy that does 30mpg for <10k and pulls over 1500kg once or twice a year. 330D 2004 seemed to tick the boxes but perhaps not.

Range rover V8 LWB 1990 pulled it fine and was fine under breaking. The BMW has more torque and better brakes, just less weight. Surely the rangey's weight will only help with snaking, but be a hinderence when breaking? Only other thing is what JS pointed out with regards to downward weight on the tow bar if unbalanced. Rangey would obviously accept more.