Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
 
Old 03 January 2004, 09:19   #1
Member
 
Country: UK - England
Town: cambridge
Make: Valiant DR600
Length: Six
Engine: Merc 4 st. EFI 115hp
Join Date: Dec 2000
Posts: 24
Trailer modification

I have a 6 metre Valiant, and am considering buying a second hand American trailer (one under every Bayliner that gets shipped to Spain) The trailer is very strong, well sprung and will take a 7.5 metre boat. However I need to launch and retrieve from a slip which ends in about 4-6 inches of water and then drops off altogether.
The trailer is currently the type that has two fabric covered parallel boards and is therefore unsuitable for anything other than an immersed retrieval, (not possible) or a lift out, (inconvenient and expensive.) Am I daft to attempt this?, if not, where can I go to get legs/rollers/brackets etc.?
The trailer will cost 350 Euros max, and has never been used.
Any advice appreciated, even where to get a reasonable build trailer in Spain
thanks
__________________

__________________
John Hughes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03 January 2004, 09:39   #2
RIBnet supporter
 
bogib's Avatar
 
Country: Iceland
Town: Reykjavik
Boat name: Cheesee
Make: Seaquel 600 XS
Length: 6m +
Engine: Mercury 275 Verado
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 1,959
Send a message via Skype™ to bogib
Bayliner makes their own trailers primarly as you describe to be immersed. It is not easy to convert and if you have to buy from Indespension the rollers and mechanism and have it fitted and modified at garage it will probably cost you more than buying original rolling trailer from Indespension, SBS or whatever the brands you can choose from in the UK. You could contact the Bayliner dealer in the UK the Windermere Aqautic up in Windermere and see whether they have retro fitted pack on the trailers they have been taking on their Capris although I think they have imported them on special brackets and source trailers locally.
__________________
bogib is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03 January 2004, 09:44   #3
tue
Member
 
Country: UK - England
Town: Paignton, Devon
Make: Chinook and Viking
Length: 7m +
Engine: 150 Etec + 125 Merc
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 526
The Bayliners shipped into this country are sent out from Windermere on SBS trailers. I don't know of any convertion kits as you can order a roller trailer for your Bayliner as an optional extra and we have never yet converted a trailer for any of our Bayliner customers.
__________________
**Paul**
Brixham BSAC
tue is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03 January 2004, 10:32   #4
Member
 
Country: UK - England
Town: emsworth
Boat name: the black stuff
Make: BALLISTIC
Length: 8m +
Engine: 2 x 200hp etec's
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 446
bayliners

thats because unless it comes from the states on a eu spec trailer ie brake systen auto reverse and mechanicaly operated its not legal , also isnt it more than 7,6 wide , and dont forget in spain your trailer needs its log book !!!!!!
__________________
RIVA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03 January 2004, 18:04   #5
Member
 
Country: UK - Wales
Town: Pwllheli-North Wales
Boat name: Delta 1
Make: Delta
Length: 6m +
Engine: Mariner 90hp Optimax
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 2,367
Hi

Depending on the kg of your boat. I can get you a brand new trailer roller coaster, swininging cradle trailer for not much over 1000.

You could end up spending not far off this converting the Bin Liner Trailer.
__________________
JG Marine Services Ltd Specialist Safety Boat Services

Bodfuan Shoot Ltd Traditional British Game Shooting
Jono Garton is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03 January 2004, 18:37   #6
Member
 
Country: UK - Wales
Town: Southampton
Boat name: DynaMoHumm/ SRV/deja
Make: Avon8.4, 5.4 & 4.777
Length: 8m +
Engine: Cat3126 Yam 90 &70
MMSI: 42
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 6,559
Taking aboard RIva's comments and if you still wanted to go ahead then I don't think it would cost you much money to do.

Firstly do not get any swinging arm or Roller Coaster parts from Indespension. Their design is flawed and leads to failure of the roller retention assembly resulting in a gouge out of your Hull when recovering.

Design what you want for the trailer and go find a welder and buy 32 Flight case castors for about a fiver each to act as your rollers. Attach them to the Carpet covered beds for an easy solution


Is this work going to be done in Spain or UK.
__________________
Here it comes again, I don't stand a chance
Soul possession, Got me in a trance
Pullin' me back to you - Deja Voodoo
Rogue Wave is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04 January 2004, 04:54   #7
Member
 
gtflash's Avatar
 
Country: UK - England
Town: southampton
Boat name: TOP CAT 2
Make: Scorpion 8.1
Length: 8m +
Engine: 250hp HO
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 1,518
cant say i would reccomend sbs trailer roller bunks either. Theyre rollers are held on with spring clips as against split pins which means if you launch and recover in a very tidal (sideways) area the twist of the boat as you slew onto the trailer kindly removes the rollers and then the roller framework damages the bottom of your boat. In one season i lost 15 rollers in total and i hated the after recover swim to fetch my rolers. I ended drilling and split pinning the rollers myself as sbs didnt see the problem
__________________
gtflash is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04 January 2004, 06:40   #8
Member
 
Country: UK - England
Town: emsworth
Boat name: the black stuff
Make: BALLISTIC
Length: 8m +
Engine: 2 x 200hp etec's
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 446
rouge wave i think you may put yourself in the shit with that comment, a design is only flaued when it failes and has been correctly looked after , rollers popping off due to pins or capa comeing away is not a design flew not when its a few years old ??? its just like wheel bearings all the wingers about bearings and brakes if you service right every dip no problem its just like leaving the boat with no care for a few months it pays you back 10 fold
__________________
RIVA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04 January 2004, 13:51   #9
Member
 
Country: UK - Wales
Town: Southampton
Boat name: DynaMoHumm/ SRV/deja
Make: Avon8.4, 5.4 & 4.777
Length: 8m +
Engine: Cat3126 Yam 90 &70
MMSI: 42
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 6,559
Diva

Whilst I freely admit that doing trailer maintenance doesn't give me a stiffy I accept that it's gotta be done and get on with it in this case it's not down to me being flakey. The first problem occured when the trailer ws 9 months old

The design is flawed because of the shape of the extrusion they use for the roller axles. Out of interest what shape do you prefer for an Axle, round works for me. I am presuming that you speak with knowledge of the indispension system if so please explain why they chose that shape of extrusion

What would you suggest was a good service routine with your trailer for every dip
__________________
Here it comes again, I don't stand a chance
Soul possession, Got me in a trance
Pullin' me back to you - Deja Voodoo
Rogue Wave is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04 January 2004, 14:28   #10
Member
 
Country: UK - England
Town: emsworth
Boat name: the black stuff
Make: BALLISTIC
Length: 8m +
Engine: 2 x 200hp etec's
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 446
THE ROUND NYLON BUSH MAKES IT ROUND that fits in the roller as you will know nylon on aliminium alowes in built material lubrication for designd less friction. it depend unbraked trailer gerase cheak 2 to3 set of bearings a year , braked trailer well lets not rnli it and strip evey time its wet but evevr 3 times bearings and drums off clean and maintain , set of cables per season 3 sets bearings per season no matter how many miles its done store with drums off although since the eu law on brake material altered last year now there is no iorn in the friction material they might not stick as much yes just a little knoelage
__________________
RIVA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04 January 2004, 15:29   #11
Member
 
Richard B's Avatar
 
Country: UK - England
Town: Devon
Boat name: White Ice
Make: Ranieri
Length: 5m +
Engine: Suzuki 115hp
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 5,015
Quote:
Originally posted by RIVA
yes just a little knoelage
But not much literacy. Take some English lessons from that Icelandic chap. Two out of ten you naughty boy.
Richard B is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04 January 2004, 15:50   #12
Member
 
Country: UK - Wales
Town: Southampton
Boat name: DynaMoHumm/ SRV/deja
Make: Avon8.4, 5.4 & 4.777
Length: 8m +
Engine: Cat3126 Yam 90 &70
MMSI: 42
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 6,559
Quote:
Originally posted by RIVA
THE ROUND NYLON BUSH MAKES IT ROUND that fits in the roller as you will know nylon on aliminium alowes in built material lubrication for designd less friction.
Yes and that's exactly where the flaw is, it's a theoretically plausible idea that doesn't stand up because the axle takes up a large proportion of the inner diameter of the roller. In turn this compromises the length of the split pin over the retaining washer The washer then rides over the split pin and introduced the oh so cleverly designed aluminium axle into my hull during the recovery process.

Again out of interest do you not think a round aluminium axle with a round nylon bush would do a better job.

Your maintenace schedule seems OK but 3 sets of bearings per year seem a little excessive ?

The storing with the drums off is definitely a valid point, thanks for that
__________________
Here it comes again, I don't stand a chance
Soul possession, Got me in a trance
Pullin' me back to you - Deja Voodoo
Rogue Wave is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04 January 2004, 16:08   #13
Member
 
Country: UK - England
Town: emsworth
Boat name: the black stuff
Make: BALLISTIC
Length: 8m +
Engine: 2 x 200hp etec's
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 446
on the english sorry small condition called dilecsea , look @ the ally propperly it has rounded edges the reson they pop of is usually 2 things 1 driving boat on in a current were it screws roller over pin this is very comon but never is admited to as every owner thinks they can drive a boat on very hard skill realy the other is not set up right in the first place , if you look closley only the top of the shaft is in contact with the ally thus pecentage wise less surface contact in side , which i think is what you ment you will also notice its not round so is stronger than putting a hole through round bar wich weekons the round bar but not formed ally
__________________
RIVA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04 January 2004, 17:38   #14
Member
 
Country: UK - Wales
Town: Southampton
Boat name: DynaMoHumm/ SRV/deja
Make: Avon8.4, 5.4 & 4.777
Length: 8m +
Engine: Cat3126 Yam 90 &70
MMSI: 42
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 6,559
Quote:
Originally posted by Richard B
But not much literacy. Take some English lessons from that Icelandic chap. Two out of ten you naughty boy.
Richard you can't win or lose a technical argument by pointing out that someone can't type well. In my case it would be hypocritical!

Riva

I see your point, but where we launch from is quite sheltered from the current. It quite a way up the Itchen (Saxon Wharf) and its a shallow slipway so we have to approach quite slowly so we don't ground the Skeg.

Obviously, lateral forces are causing the problem in pushing off the rollers but those forces are also exerted normally when the boat is moving up the rollers, as the hull shape is spreading the rollers. Basically the problem is caused I think by the split pin being too short. I'll go and have a good look at it tomorrow and come back to you.

__________________
Here it comes again, I don't stand a chance
Soul possession, Got me in a trance
Pullin' me back to you - Deja Voodoo
Rogue Wave is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04 January 2004, 17:40   #15
Member
 
Richard B's Avatar
 
Country: UK - England
Town: Devon
Boat name: White Ice
Make: Ranieri
Length: 5m +
Engine: Suzuki 115hp
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 5,015
Wasn't arguing, just being.... awkward.

In fact - Sorry Riva - that was a bit (lot?) cruel of me.
Richard B is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04 January 2004, 18:02   #16
Member
 
Country: UK - Wales
Town: Southampton
Boat name: DynaMoHumm/ SRV/deja
Make: Avon8.4, 5.4 & 4.777
Length: 8m +
Engine: Cat3126 Yam 90 &70
MMSI: 42
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 6,559
Hi Rich

SI perhaps?

You weren't arguing I was, and not with you for a change!

Any way It's livened up a slow nite
__________________
Here it comes again, I don't stand a chance
Soul possession, Got me in a trance
Pullin' me back to you - Deja Voodoo
Rogue Wave is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04 January 2004, 18:17   #17
Member
 
Richard B's Avatar
 
Country: UK - England
Town: Devon
Boat name: White Ice
Make: Ranieri
Length: 5m +
Engine: Suzuki 115hp
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 5,015
Quote:
Originally posted by Rogue Wave
SI perhaps?
Richard B is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04 January 2004, 18:42   #18
Member
 
Country: UK - Wales
Town: Southampton
Boat name: DynaMoHumm/ SRV/deja
Make: Avon8.4, 5.4 & 4.777
Length: 8m +
Engine: Cat3126 Yam 90 &70
MMSI: 42
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 6,559
The Whiteshooz syndrome (Stella Intolerance)
__________________
Here it comes again, I don't stand a chance
Soul possession, Got me in a trance
Pullin' me back to you - Deja Voodoo
Rogue Wave is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05 January 2004, 05:19   #19
Member
 
Pete7's Avatar
 
Country: UK - England
Town: Gosport
Boat name: April Lass
Make: Moody 31
Length: 9m +
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 4,909
Have to agree with Rogue on this, the design of Indespension traliers leaves alot to be desired. Plated split pins and washers in Aluminum dipped in salt water is not a good recipie. Replacing the split pins is almost impossible, different hub sizes even on the same size of trailer ads confusion and means dealers don't stock the right size. And making brake shoes and springs out of mild steel for a boat trailer is astonishing, or good business practice as you can sell new brakes shoes every year for every trailer you make

Quote:
if you service right every dip no problem
hmm, there is no way you should have to take the hubs off after every dip, 3 times a year sounds better. From experience my bearing last 2 years with this and a set of bearing protectors.

Pete
__________________
Pete7 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05 January 2004, 10:33   #20
Member
 
Country: UK - Wales
Town: Southampton
Boat name: DynaMoHumm/ SRV/deja
Make: Avon8.4, 5.4 & 4.777
Length: 8m +
Engine: Cat3126 Yam 90 &70
MMSI: 42
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 6,559
Right then I have been down to the trailer and have had a look at the design and I still maintain it is Flawed.

The extrusion that forms the roller axle is Ovoid
The plate washer that retains the roller on the axle has a round hole
Where the round hole of the washer is placed over the ovoid shaped axle the split pin is inserted through the thinnest section of the axle
Behind the very short split pin you can see the Gap between the washer and the axle which fairly quiclky allows the split pin to be ridden over by the washer.

A friend has a new Ribtec which came with a new indispension trailer and that's got the same problem and they are beginning to go after about 10 launches

over
__________________

__________________
Here it comes again, I don't stand a chance
Soul possession, Got me in a trance
Pullin' me back to you - Deja Voodoo
Rogue Wave is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off




All times are GMT -5. The time now is 15:12.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.