Trailer Brakes

[Nasher]

I’ve had enough of trailer brakes. I flush them out with fresh water as part of my routine every time the boat comes out of the water, and I’ve stripped, cleaned and greased them three times during the year. Yet having tried to move the boat yesterday the brakes are seized on, despite the handbrake being left off. I use good quality water resistant high temperature melting point Grease to lightly lubricate the adjusters and moving parts. So its another cold couple of hours stripping, cleaning, greasing etc.
The seals on the Hubs appear to keep the water out of the bearings, as they are fine.

Disc brakes would appear to be the answer. As they are a more ‘open’ design they should be much easier to rinse off with the hose.

I can machine up some new hubs to take my existing wheels with mountings for discs, and can cut down the existing backing plates to bolt on brackets and callipers. That part is the easy bit.

I’m in three minds about the actuating system however.

Some American trailers such as those used for Bayliners use Hydraulic drum brakes, I could cobble together a system using the front of one of those by changing the hitch size. However the master cylinder size may not be compatible with the brake piston sizes etc.

I could mount a car master cylinder and use the existing cable to operate it.

Or as most modern cars use rear discs with cable handbrake mechanisms, my preferred route would be to keep the existing cables, and operate the callipers using the handbrake system. This appeals as I can raid a scrap yard for the complete system from a big 4X4 or something for next to nothing, and not worry about master cylinder/calliper bore sizes etc.

I’ll keep my drums for another season whilst I collect the parts and machine the bits, then fit them next winter.

Nasher.

[Jackwabbit]

IF you can get this problem sorted, you’ll have a job for life !
Good luck

[Andy Stevens]

Drill holes in th drums. This is what my Land rover 101 has and it allows them to drain better. T

[Simon B]

We had this problem alot, the partial solution we used to some effect was to back the adjuster off each it was parked up.

Clearly there is the risk here that one can drive off without any braking at all, balance this against the previous practice to get over the problem which was to completely disconnect the brakes and it seems a fair trade.

I did wonder about parking the trailer with the brake shoes in their "collapsed" position for reversing and backing off the adjuster. All of this is done using chocks ofcourse and a wheel lock!

[Richard B]

Nasher - it may be useful to look at how Dixon-Bate do this for their rapide trailers which are available with disc brakes. Unfortunately their web site doesn't appear to give much away: http://www.dixonbate.co.uk/html/rapide_trailers.htm

You would probably also have an interesting conversation with Andy Clark at "The Bosuns Mate" on this subject http://www.bosunsmate.co.uk/ he's as passionate about the poor design of trailers as Rogue Wave!

[Matt]

I want new axles on my trailer. I've been thinking about using the front disk, caliper, hub & stub axle from a range rover and having the axle made up with a flange for the stub axle and bracket for the caliper. I figure RR spares are cheap enough that it doesn't matter if I have to throw out the rotating assembly every couple of seasons.

[Nasher]

Madmat

how are you going to apply hydraulic pressure to the brakes?

Nasher.

[Matt]

By attaching the coupling to a master cylinder, ie use a master cylinder instead of the cables (or even a pair of master culinders since it's a 4 wheeled trailed. Dual circuit brakes woo hoo). Or getting an american hydraulic coupling with a master cylinder built in.

[timboli]

Originally Posted by Simon B

I did wonder about parking the trailer with the brake shoes in their "collapsed" position for reversing and backing off the adjuster. All of this is done using chocks ofcourse and a wheel lock!

I used to back my trailer into its parked position,thinking that the above theory was sound,but found the brakes stuck on when I tried to move the trailer again.I discussed this with the dealer who sold me the trailer(admiral) and he told me never to leave the brakes in the collapsed state and to always pull it forward again to re-engaage the brakes in the normal position,this seemed to work but I cannot explain why?

[Rogue Wave]

Nasher, been there and done that with drum brakes! I don't bother with brakes on my trailers now. I have a big big trailer with a combination of bunks and rollers whih I transport all boats on (this is braked and this never goes in to de water!)

I have a flat bed which was made up using a pair of Omega axles inclusing the hydraulic breaking system. You are welcome to bprrow it or examine it It works very well by the way!

[Matt]

Was it sitting at Drivers Wharf a while back?

[Rogue Wave]

yes it still is It's a red steel trailer!

[Matt]

So, um, that would be the one with the hydraulic reservoir that's empty then?

[jwalker]

Nasher, my last trailer had home made hydraulic drum brakes. Seizing on was not a problem but the cast iron drum corrosion always wore out the linings quickly and, originally, the cylinder pistons corroded easily. I made brass pistons, machined the recesses for the rubber boots a little larger diameter than standard and incorporated an O ring outwards of the hydraulic seal. Filled every space with brake grease and that lot sorted the problem.

I used a tandem master cylinder from a Vauxhall Cavalier which was connected to a hand brake lever which was pushed by the hitch. No problems at all with that. It had a waterproof front boot on it. The hand brake was applied by connecting the winch rope to the top of the hand brake lever. Although, I can count on one hand the number of times I needed it.

I reckon standard cast iron discs and the usual chromed caliper piston would last, unseized, about 5 minutes after saltwater immersion. Brake pads normally contain iron as the abrasive and in normal use they cause corroding of the disc so, in salt water, I'd bet they rust on in no time. I believe there are moves afoot to remove the iron as an abrasive in the future.

I have made caliper pistons from both brass and stainless and both worked fine in normal road use. You could probably make some nice bronze ones for the sea.

I'm just entering the world of 'real' trailer brakes and there design amazes me...which Bozo designed them. As an aid to convienient reversing, they don't work if the trailer is moving backwards ... and they are leading and trailing shoes design!!! So what does the trailing shoe do? Idiots.

As an aid to anti-seizing, I've modified the system not to use cables and the actuation levers are slightly longer to allow the brakes to be used in their unadjusted state. I realise there is a greater travel required but this is acheived by a wee modification at the hitch. The adjustment screws are replaced by stainless ones. The cams I've just greased up to see how they last.

I intend to investigate linings which can be riveted to the shoes and, if they are available, I'll make stainless shoes. It should only have to be done once so not too bad a job.

I'll be interested to hear how you get on with your modifications.

[Nasher]

Thanks Guys, some interesting comments.

Rogue. Completely agree with your ideal of having a transport trailer and a launching dolly, unfortunately unless I move the boat to permanent storage by a slipway it’s not practical for me.
I did think about building a big piggyback system similar to the ones the Dingy guys use, but discounted it on grounds of additional weight.

JWalker. I was planning on remaking any calliper pistons in Stainless to extend their life, but bronze would obviously be better, thanks.

Timboli. It’s an interesting point about reversing into a space, I’ll try going in too far and pulling out a bit in future. (Fnarr, Fnarr).

As mentioned, I’ll probably collect the bits over the coming season and fit them next winter, so might adapt my ideas along the way.
The ideal will be to find a ‘spare’ axle second-hand that I’ll strip down and build up in the garage ready to just swap over when it’s ready.
Anyone know of an axle sitting about with wrecked Brakes etc?

For the time being I’ll do what I can with the drums. I’m going to drill an extra hole in the top of the back plates and make up some spray heads to go inside with short lengths of tube sticking out the back. I’ll then permanently run two pieces of Hose via a ‘T’ Piece back to the rear of the trailer ending in a standard hose connector.
This way I can flush with fresh water easier than trying to aim the hose between the drum and back plate.

I might also come up with a Quick lift system. Over-centre axle stands with a scaffold pole lever so that both wheels are off the ground, I can then give them a quick spin whenever I check up on the boat.


Nasher.

[Mark Halliday]

Nasher
Nip down to Keydell Nursery in Horndean and have a look at the micro irrigation kit.There are loads of very small jets with different spray patterns which may be usefull for sticking thro' the backplate.

If you want any help/ideas/drawings etc give me a shout. I would be interested in looking at this with you.

See you at Church next month and we can chat.

[Nasher]

Good Idea Mark.
Keydell is about 5 minutes from my house in the car. We must be able to come up with a better solution to this issue, both for making the best of drums and Discs.

Looks like the Churchillian will be on Monday the 10th Jan. I’ll post a separate thread to remind everyone.

I’m at work at the moment, and my desk jotter is now covered in drawings of Hub assemblies, Discs, callipers etc.

Nasher.

[Hightower]

If you went the "home made" disc approach (which I like), wouldn't there be insurance and accountability problems if you had an accident with such a modification?

Andy

[Nasher]

Not if one of the qualified Engineers amongst us does an engineers report stating how in their opinion the new brakes are safer than the old ones.

Insurance companies like Engineers reports, I've been modifying Motorcycles for too long not to be aware of how they work.

Nasher

[Paul Beaurain]

Hi
Discs do seem the way forward - so quite keen to have some feedback from some of the first users of Dixon Bates disc brake system.

Are there any on Ribnet?

pb