Towing - Trailers - Insurance

rubberjoey · 23 November 2012, 20:35

Hey.

A very grey area....

I'd be interested to know if this is a problem throughout the industry of marine and vehicle insurers.

My DLine Private Car motor policy does not cover me if my trailer becomes detached from my vehicle whilst in transit and injures a third party. They will only cover me if the trailer is attached at the time. They do not cover damage to my boat or goods being transported either (hence marine insurance).

So, marine insurance will cover any damage to my boat or trailer? Yes, mine does, but they do not cover any injury to a third party caused by either the boat or the trailer if it becomes detached from my vehicle.

Unless I am mistaken, if my tow hitch or wheel fails and the trailer and or boat become free and injure or worse kills someone there is no insurance cover in place either from my vehicle or marine insurers.

My marine insurer said that this used to be part of their cover, but some years ago was removed from the policy wording and this is a common exclusion with most marine insurers.

Eeek!

Poly · 23 November 2012, 20:56

three responses:

1. shop around i don't see anything about that in either direct line or esure policy docs.
2. if they are allowed to get out of it by law, then you can be sure they will try to weedle their way out by saying only could happen if the trailr wasn't road worthy to start with
3. spnd your time making sure trailer is safe to avoid the problem rather than reading the docs...

Maximus · 23 November 2012, 21:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Poly

three responses:

1. shop around i don't see anything about that in either direct line or esure policy docs.
2. if they are allowed to get out of it by law, then you can be sure they will try to weedle their way out by saying only could happen if the trailr wasn't road worthy to start with
3. spnd your time making sure trailer is safe to avoid the problem rather than reading the docs...

Like Poly said shop around...till your Happy with the cover.Like the man says IF they can get away wth it they will!And the point about trailer maintainance is very Valid!
Haveing said that I just had a 'run in' with my Home Cover after I had an expensive watch stolen (from my locker at the Gym) I've had that particular watch for 8-9 years and put the Valuation in at the time...and guess what?Its now gone up...-ALOT! and they only wanted to pay as per valuation!!???.....Enter.. The Insurance Onbudsman... Your friend and mine!(We pay for him too!)..Now 3mths later SORTED!
The Moral being.. do NOT take thier 'BS' they WILL try it on..but NOT nessesraly win!

Trailer Guy · 24 November 2012, 08:44

Datatag do trailer insurance. May be worth an enquiry as to what level and if they'd cover the load (i.e. boat) too.

PeterM · 24 November 2012, 11:29

I'd suggest the person who told you that at DL is talking crap......

Boats&Outboards · 24 November 2012, 12:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by PeterM

I'd suggest the person who told you that at DL is talking crap......

Really ? I thought that's pretty standard with car insurance that if the trailer becomes detached from the insured vehicle its no longer part of their responsibility.

Peter @ Boatsandoutboards4sale ~ www.boatsandoutboards4sale.co.uk ~ 07930 421007

PeterM · 24 November 2012, 13:22

I'm 99% sure ..Its been a while since I read the road traffic act around third party liability, but I'm sure it covers trailers that 'become' detached .

Sat about unhitched is a whole differing issue - as is cover for the trailer itself and the contents( as said) ...which oddly can (but not 100% all the time) become covered themselves when they are hitched up !

However most 'home' coversinclude an element of third party cover ..but this will exclude RTA legal requirments ..other wise no one would insure thier car...theyd just rely on house insurance.

I will double check (and repost) with my handy expert 'monkey' in this area at work on Monday or before if I can get hold of him ....

Maximus · 24 November 2012, 16:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by PeterM

I'm 99% sure ..Its been a while since I read the road traffic act around third party liability, but I'm sure it covers trailers that 'become' detached .

Sat about unhitched is a whole differing issue - as is cover for the trailer itself and the contents( as said) ...which oddly can (but not 100% all the time) become covered themselves when they are hitched up !

However most 'home' coversinclude an element of third party cover ..but this will exclude RTA legal requirments ..other wise no one would insure thier car...theyd just rely on house insurance.

I will double check (and repost) with my handy expert 'monkey' in this area at work on Monday or before if I can get hold of him ....

''Sick em'' Pete!!

rubberjoey · 26 November 2012, 22:55

Under RTA (their minimum statutory requirement is indeed Third Party Only) but this does not extend to trailers when they become detached, so it seems. Also, how was your tow bar fitted, by manufacturer when new, or an after market addition, if so then not declaring you have one fitted (a modification) is potentially another reason for them to repudiate a claim, even when attached, same as bull bars, might seem petty, but true.

Granted we should keep our trailers in a maintained order, but it is not unusual for people to expect that noisy wheel bearing to hopefully last a few small journeys longer! So, if the insurer can prove negligence they could repudiate. If you have a rusty old trailer which clearly shouldn't be on the road let alone towing a 500+kg boat down the motorway, you could be in trouble, period!

DL is underwriten by UK Insurance Ltd, same underwriter as many other 'brand insurer names' such as Priviledge, so DL is not alone with their policy wording. They are also considered as being more of a 'comprehensive' direct insurer. If you have cheap motor insurance there is usually a reason for this, e.g. no EU cover, no courtesy car, no passenger personal accident cover and other lesser known extras (driver other cars extension) being a classic extra cover which is stripped out of 'basic comprehensive' policies. 'Comprehensive' does not mean it is comprehensive, work that one out!

It's not a case of seeking a challenge from the Ombudsman either, if the insurer has provided you with all the correct TOBA, Key Facts and disclosed all the features and benefits at inception or renewal and you have accepted their terms then if cover is not operative for this type of event then that's tough. But as sure as eggs is eggs the injury lawyers will want compensation for their client.

So yeah, I will be checking other insurers at renewal (next September!), but I would check your own.

I've saw one incident on the motorway earlier this year where a car trailer and a rather nice RS200 ended up on top of the central reservation and was detached from the towing vehicle, I have no idea why anyone was not killed in the incident. It looked like a properly secured rig and a decent towing vehicle, so can only assume driver error or a blow out, bloomin lucky, the RS was unscathed too!

Bored now :~)

Poly · 27 November 2012, 07:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by rubberjoey

Under RTA (their minimum statutory requirement is indeed Third Party Only) but this does not extend to trailers when they become detached, so it seems.

I suspect (although I haven't read any case law around the issue) that if you are driving along when it becomes detached then it may be viewed as being part of the 'vehicle' and covered; whereas what it clearly doesn't cover is the parking of a trailer at the roadside. Effectively the difference between accidental and intentional detachment. If you can point to case law that contradicts what I have written I'd be interested.

Quote:

Also, how was your tow bar fitted, by manufacturer when new, or an after market addition, if so then not declaring you have one fitted (a modification) is potentially another reason for them to repudiate a claim, even when attached, same as bull bars, might seem petty, but true.

my understanding, although it is not based on professional legal advice, is that s148 of the RTA prevents an insurer from wheedling out of 3rd party claims on the basis of mods - but it could affect your 'comprehensive cover'.

Quote:

Granted we should keep our trailers in a maintained order, but it is not unusual
for people to expect that noisy wheel bearing to hopefully last a few small journeys longer! So, if the insurer can prove negligence they could repudiate. If you have a rusty old trailer which clearly shouldn't be on the road let alone towing a 500+kg boat down the motorway, you could be in trouble, period!

It may not be unusual but it is certainly unreasonable. As above s148 appears to means 3rd party cover is not invalidated by the condition of the vehicle. Its not insurance you need to worry about but a potential manslaughter charge.

Quote:

It's not a case of seeking a challenge from the Ombudsman either, if the insurer has provided you with all the correct TOBA, Key Facts and disclosed all the features and benefits at inception or renewal and you have accepted their terms then if cover is not operative for this type of event then that's tough. But as sure as eggs is eggs the injury lawyers will want compensation for their client.

oddly that's not what s148 says either, in terms of 3rd party liabilities...

Quote:

If you have cheap motor insurance there is usually a reason for this, e.g. no EU cover, no courtesy car, no passenger personal accident cover and other lesser known extras (driver other cars extension) being a classic extra cover which is stripped out of 'basic comprehensive' policies. 'Comprehensive' does not mean it is comprehensive, work that one out!

I'm guessing you sell insurance? To me those 'extra features' are generally of little interest, and not worth the extra premium - but it does seem that insurance salesmen are programmed with a different view of risk to normal people!

Boats&Outboards · 27 November 2012, 07:46

I'm quite sure I checked it with DL at the time I took it out and they were quite insistent if it became detached it was no longer covered. I'm not sure if detached means from the towbar hitch itself or completely as in the break away cable also snaps and it runs free. If it debated but remained connected to the towbar by the cable it may be different.

Have moved I surer now and I must admit I've no idea on their policy regarding it. Judging by the way they hiked my premium £400 for a 5 year NCB NON FAULT notification (parked car hit by another, which wasn't even handled by them, just advised them of a claim via the 3rd party's insurance) I would imagine they will try everything in the book to wriggle out.

Admiral insurance - one to avoid!!!! Wished I could have stayed with Direct Line but they will not cobra X5 without an active tracker.
Peter @ Boatsandoutboards4sale ~ www.BoatsandOutboards4Sale.co.uk ~ 07930 421007

simsy · 27 November 2012, 08:03

My fathers boat became detached due to tow bar failure 25 year sago, 1200kg boat over took us on its 4 wheel trailer going down hill... Dad over took it back, jumped out on foot and 'rode' it to the curb... Very lucky, as just before a blind bridge.....

PeterM · 27 November 2012, 09:30

Sorry - been suddenly busy at work , but on speaking to my tame motor specialist monkeys ...and some hasty reading up again by me...

Any insurer that tries to wriggle out of a claim would be on thin ice....

All comes down to the definition of the insured vehicle (within the policy and RTA) . Any decent policy will just get on and pay it & deal with it. A crap one one will try to wriggle, but I feel would be 'trumped' by the RTA if it got that serious.