Tow bar carriers - Page 2

Old seahorse · 10 May 2021, 15:18

Quick update. Looked at both Thule and Buzzrack.
Thule a good brand, with in built lights, but Buzzrack appears to offer more versatility, is size adjustable, and greater capacity. I have taken the plunge and ordered the Buzzrack.
Thanks agin for everyone’s input

SimonCh · 22 May 2021, 20:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Old seahorse

Quick update. Looked at both Thule and Buzzrack.
Thule a good brand, with in built lights, but Buzzrack appears to offer more versatility, is size adjustable, and greater capacity. I have taken the plunge and ordered the Buzzrack.
Thanks agin for everyone’s input

Pics of it in action and some info on your thoughts once it arrives please!!

Old seahorse · 23 May 2021, 08:24

I’ve fitted the new rack. It’s much the same as the one in MM’s pictures. Only visible difference is the number plate holder. The optional lights are still awaited( out of stock), but are not integrated with no.plate as in the photo.
I ordered the optional lock, which fits over the clamp fitting, but wasn’t able to fit it without dismantling the mechanism, which has been overdosed with loctite. In fairness, the suppliers ( Roof box company in Cumbria), tried to resolve, and then refunded me for the part. I will secure via other means when required.
The rack has fixed width, and adjustable length ( rear wards) , but I think set at smallest size will be plenty for my needs with the boat.
I have two boat bags. Largest is 1 metres by approx 45 cm.
I discovered the width of the Thule model is about 25 cm more than Buzzrack, which would have made It difficult to stow inside the car if required I( I have a Freelander2).
The removable vertical bar ( see MM’s photo) will be useful for tall, bulky items, but probably not necessary for my boat.
All the adjustable parts are secured without tools.
Having carried out a “ first fit”, it feels rock solid. It has a double lock system to secure. The instructions are the modern diagrams without text . Most of it is easy to follow, but I found the part on securing the tow bar clamp a bit confusing.
Roof box were very helpful in guiding me, and once fathomed out, it’s easy( duh!)
Capacity is rated( subject to vehicle tow bar limits), as up to 75kg
But not sure I would want to test that out.
I plan to use it next week for 1st run out, so will add to post after.
It has several potential benefits for me.
1. Less lifting of heavy objects in and out of the car.
2. Loading the car in a more logical sequence, making it easier when assembling / disassembling the boat
Currently boat goes in car, engine in last, making assembly more difficult ( engine out last saves looking for safe place to put it whilst inflating boat).
3. Releasing boot space for personal baggage .
Hopefully, it will prove to be as good as it first appears.

TmMorris · 23 May 2021, 12:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeffstevens763@g

Arnt most tow balls only rated to 100 kg?

I think that's right. Mind you I think I could carry another car on the set up I sourced from South Africa for my car!

My back up plan is the carrier that Excel sell if the boat turns out to be too much work to hoist into the boot on my own.

HDAV · 23 May 2021, 18:07

Tow balls can be upto 250kg but many are 100-150kg especially the detachable type

beamishken · 23 May 2021, 19:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by HDAV

Tow balls can be upto 250kg but many are 100-150kg especially the detachable type

Which uk vehicle has a permissible nose weight of 250kgs? My landcruiser amazon is 140kg & my hilux is 120kgs not sure what would be higher than those two. Majority of cars will be significantly less, probably in the 75 -100kg area.
The problem with those racks is they put the load further out than the ball which is far worse than on the ball as its trying to leaver the back of the vehicle down & lift the front. The further back the load goes the worse the effect gets. Tow bars are made for pulling not carrying stuff. On modern monocoque chassis vehicles the tow bar mounting points are set into reinforced pre formed bolt positions often frighteningly lightly fabricated. I'd be very cautious of putting any sort of load approaching the tow bars nose weight capacity hanging out the back of a small or medium size car.

HDAV · 23 May 2021, 19:17

Disco 4 for one (with fixed drop plate ) not sure why your Toyota it’s is sooo low

https://www.ownerinfo.landrover.com/.../proc/G1820634

beamishken · 23 May 2021, 19:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by HDAV

Disco 4 for one (with fixed drop plate ) not sure why your Toyota it’s is sooo low

https://www.ownerinfo.landrover.com/.../proc/G1820634

When you read the link the vehicles carrying capacity is reduced to compensate for the extra nose weight which makes sense & I'm looking at the data stamped on the towbars themselves so perhaps the vehicles are rated higher in certain circumstances similar to the landrovers Idk.
But remember these are separate chassis vehicles unlike most cars which are built from fairly thin materials.
Even with a higher rating putting the load further out from the vehicle increases the rear axle weight & decreases the front axle weight. & chances are if you have a landrover / cruiser/ hilux type vehicle then you'll probably not need a tow bar rack.

HDAV · 23 May 2021, 19:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by beamishken

When you read the link the vehicles carrying capacity is reduced to compensate for the extra nose weight which makes sense & I'm looking at the data stamped on the towbars themselves so perhaps the vehicles are rated higher in certain circumstances similar to the landrovers Idk.
But remember these are separate chassis vehicles unlike most cars which are built from fairly thin materials.
Even with a higher rating putting the load further out from the vehicle increases the rear axle weight & decreases the front axle weight. & chances are if you have a landrover / cruiser/ hilux type vehicle then you'll probably not need a tow bar rack.

Iveco daily also has 250kg ball capacity

Many reasons like it might not fit, you might not want the contents inside the vehicle. Clearly possible and sensible are different to legal in the U.K. same car sold in other countries may have totally different capabilities.

beamishken · 23 May 2021, 20:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by HDAV

Iveco daily also has 250kg ball capacity

Many reasons like it might not fit, you might not want the contents inside the vehicle. Clearly possible and sensible are different to legal in the U.K. same car sold in other countries may have totally different capabilities.

Ok so some commercials and large capacity 4x4s have a higher ball load capacity however I'd expect most folk who want to use these things will be doing so with more average vehicles whos body type are not designed to take the loading some of these racks claim to be capable of carrying. Folk need to be aware that putting 40 or 50 kg 12 or 18 inches behind the ball levering the rear of the vehicle down is putting significantly more strain on the vehicle structure than the same 40 or 50kgs on the ball & could result in body damage to the vehicle

TmMorris · 23 May 2021, 22:36

50kg hanging out the back is going to alter the way a car handles as well. Something to remember on a wet roundabout.

It'll also reduce braking ability as there will be less mass over the front wheels which do the bulk of the braking.

Old seahorse · 24 May 2021, 13:04

I think all the cautionary comments are valid. The Buzzrack does come with clear warnings about safe loading, speed and handling.
( and I would hope other brands do!) Having towed trailers of different sizes, and types over the years, it is clear that doing so also has potential issues, including increased braking loads/ increased stopping distance, risk of the tail wagging the dog if nose weight is inadequate, and cornering differences.
They are also subject to mandatory speed limits.
Overloading inside the vehicle also affects handling, and sometimes visibility, with potential risk to occupants if the load moves. I have sadly seen many instances of this.
I don’t think carrying any large/ heavy load is without some potential risk, whichever way you do it.
The final issue is the driver, making allowances for those factors, and driving to minimise those risks.
I would rather be able to stow all the kit within the vehicle, but increasing age, and operating solo has caused me to try this option, to make life just a little easier!
Time will tell if I have made the right choice

TmMorris · 24 May 2021, 13:18

The upside is that it will make your car handle like an old 911.

As you say, while keeping all the bulk within the wheelbase of a car leads to much smaller changes to handling, bad stowage in the event of an incident is the real risk.

For example, a 50kg untethered bag coming forward into the back of a front seat at 30mph turns a walk away incident into something much more significant. Similar with an outboard not wanting to decelerate with the same speed as the occupants.

Ultimately, whether stowing within the wheelbase or hanging off the end of it I suspect that the real risk factor is common sense?

I've a feeling that I'll end up using the tow bar to mainly mitigate a two hour return drive with a ruptured disk but the car does at least have a self leveller to partially compensate and it's a plodding wagon anyway.

Jhoughton · 26 May 2021, 14:57

I went for that amazon cargo carrier on the receiver hitch in the end - will see what it feels like. I've got an american Chevrolet Suburban so I think it's pretty much made to measure...I'll report back once it arrives!

Old seahorse · 27 May 2021, 19:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jhoughton

I went for that amazon cargo carrier on the receiver hitch in the end - will see what it feels like. I've got an american Chevrolet Suburban so I think it's pretty much made to measure...I'll report back once it arrives!

It will be good to hear how you get on. First trip with mine tomorrow. Fingers crossed!

Old seahorse · 28 May 2021, 19:03

I’ve just used the rack for first trip, 120 miles on all roads. Rack stayed rock solid. I kept down to 65 on motorway. Front wheels feel much like when I towed boat trailer.
Straps supplied are probably enough, but I added another to be sure. Releases a lot of boot space, and unloading to inflate and launch should be easier and more logical.

Brinormeg · 28 May 2021, 22:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Old seahorse

I’ve just used the rack for first trip, 120 miles on all roads. Rack stayed rock solid. I kept down to 65 on motorway. Front wheels feel much like when I towed boat trailer.
Straps supplied are probably enough, but I added another to be sure. Releases a lot of boot space, and unloading to inflate and launch should be easier and more logical.

That's good news its working out for you and the handling of the car wasn't too bad with the extra weight out the back.

What car was it attached to?

Old seahorse · 29 May 2021, 08:27

I’ve got a Freelander 2. I was carrying approx 35 Kg.
Though it’s rated at 75Kg, not sure I’d want to go to that weight.
I was having to tip the rear seats before, so it’s freed up loads of space.

TmMorris · 29 May 2021, 09:06

I unpacked and fitted the BuzzRack Pro P10 yesterday.

It's very lightweight yet sturdy and having never used a tow ball gabbing figment such as this I was genuinely surprised at how it operated, gripping firm before reaching the end of tightening.

The only minor flaw is that the angle at which the secondary tightening leaver and mechanism is set means that if your car has a ball mounting plate then it fouls up against this meaning the carrier is slightly canted to one side. Arguably a non issue for most bit a living hell for an OCD nut.

The system itself takes just moments to put together.

Being slung on the back of an old 4x4 which has a self leveller over the rear axle helps a little.

My initial thoughts are:

Do I actually need the upright section of the device. If the bag is strapped down correctly then I'm wondering if it is surplus to requirements. This would make life easier for both accessing the boot and stowing the system in the car once parked up.

Secondly, a drive home in the wet and this boat bag is going to be covered in road filth. I might cut up some of the yellow PVC sheeting I have to form a roll that the bag is placed on to shield it from the worst. Of the muck.

All in, while the bag will fit in the boot with one rear seat folded this carrier makes loading and unloading a 60kg bag easy and it frees up the boot space just to make packing up at the end of the day easier, strip the boat of the ancillaries and load them into the boot then just deal with the boat packing and dropping it onto the carrier.

The vital thing is that like a bike rack on the roof you need to remember that it's there!!!

Old seahorse · 29 May 2021, 17:41

I managed without the upright bar for the same reason. Everything stayed secure without. I used my small trailer cover to wrap over the boat bags. I see you can buy waterproof bags but I’ve spent enough so I am making do!
When to say the secondary lever fouls the mounting plate, does pulling thr lever back against the sprung to rotate lever help( sort of “ratchet system” help, or am I misunderstanding what you mean?