Heavy load

[Nos4r2]

Originally Posted by m chappelow

i know im going off track here but its like recovery trucks dont need an m.o.t test or tacograph or keep to any driving hours if only used for recovering crashed vehicles from the accident to the recovery yard ,but if used to carry a vehicle from a garage to another place that is called vehicles transportation and it then has to have mot and taco fitted and flashing amber lights cannot be used on the move as its classed as a normal goods vehicle .

That'll be changing soon regarding tachos and recovery trucks. The EU has a lot to answer for.

[bedajim]

Originally Posted by Nos4r2

Hmmm.... I don't think that's legal but it'd take a clued up copper to know.

4500 KG trailer gross weight, 3160 kg load capacity
(More if you take the cattle shed off it)

http://www.batesontrailers.com/trail...p?ID=108&cat=7

It says can be driven by a normal C1 licence
(the standard car licence obtained before January 1997)

£7500 + £3500 for the brake conversion

May get the welder out later, need something to do over the winter

[Nos4r2]

Originally Posted by bedajim

4500 KG trailer gross weight, 3160 kg load capacity
(More if you take the cattle shed off it)

http://www.batesontrailers.com/trail...p?ID=108&cat=7

It says can be driven by a normal C1 licence
(the standard car licence obtained before January 1997)

£7500 + £3500 for the brake conversion

May get the welder out later, need something to do over the winter

I'm still unsure on whether that's legal or not. I think you probably need to talk to the NTTA or a Ministry copper. Bear in mind I've seen a few motorhomes based on 10 tonners where the company tell you you don't need a class C licence yet you do. I wouldn't trust the word of the company selling it to you as it's not their responsibility.

B+E Cars with trailers 17 Combinations of vehicles consisting of a vehicle in category B and a trailer, where the combination does not come within category B. The MAM of the trailer must not exceed the mass of the unladen towing vehicle[9]

[Jono]

Nos..the wording for B+E on your link is NOT what is on the Gov't web site.

B = Motor vehicles with a MAM not exceeding 3500kg having not more than eight passenger seats with a trailer up to 750kg. Combinations of towing vehicles in category B and a trailer, where the MAM of the combination does not exceed 3500kg and the MAM of the trailer does not exceed the unladen mass of the towing vehicle

B+E = Combinations of vehicles consisting of a vehicle in category B and a trailer, where the combination does not come within category B

As you can see there's no relationship between trailer and vehicle weight given in B+E. A slip up maybe?

[Jono]

QUOTE=bedajim;270316]
It says can be driven by a normal C1 licence..[/QUOTE]

Yup, that’s what it says on their web site..but


C1 is for vehicles with 3,500<MAM<7,500. (Medium sized vehicles)

A “light good vehicle” is under 3,500 KG I believe, so falls outside C1.

Navara shown has MAM of 3,210 KG with payload of 1,050 Kg as far as I can find out. If you’re towing under “C1+E” then MAM of trailer cannot exceed the unladen mass of the towing vehicle. IE trailer MAM of 2,160 Kg.

If it was driven under B+E class then I could kind of understand that….*if* the Navara was re-plated to show GTW of 7,710 and trailer MAM of 4,500 Kg (Currently shown as 2,600/2,700 (depending on version) they could be relying on this (DFT website)


The maximum laden weight of a trailer which may be towed by a light goods vehicle depends on both the stated gross train weight of the towing vehicle (GTW) and the vehicle manufacturer's recommended maximum permissible trailer weight. Neither the maximum permissible trailer weight or the maximum gross train weight (the laden weight of the trailer plus the laden weight of the towing vehicle) should be exceeded. It is possible that the stated gross train weight is less than the sum of the stated maximum permissible laden weight of the towing vehicle and the stated maximum permissible laden trailer weight. In this case the towing vehicle and the trailer must be loaded such that each does not exceed its individual maximum limit and the sum of both does not exceed the maximum gross train weight.

I am at a loss to see how they can say it’s “C1”….. any ideas?

[bedajim]

Originally Posted by Jono

QUOTE=bedajim;270316]
It says can be driven by a normal C1 licence..

Yup, that’s what it says on their web site..but


C1 is for vehicles with 3,500<MAM<7,500. (Medium sized vehicles)

A “light good vehicle” is under 3,500 KG I believe, so falls outside C1.

Navara shown has MAM of 3,210 KG with payload of 1,050 Kg as far as I can find out. If you’re towing under “C1+E” then MAM of trailer cannot exceed the unladen mass of the towing vehicle. IE trailer MAM of 2,160 Kg.

If it was driven under B+E class then I could kind of understand that….*if* the Navara was re-plated to show GTW of 7,710 and trailer MAM of 4,500 Kg (Currently shown as 2,600/2,700 (depending on version) they could be relying on this (DFT website)


The maximum laden weight of a trailer which may be towed by a light goods vehicle depends on both the stated gross train weight of the towing vehicle (GTW) and the vehicle manufacturer's recommended maximum permissible trailer weight. Neither the maximum permissible trailer weight or the maximum gross train weight (the laden weight of the trailer plus the laden weight of the towing vehicle) should be exceeded. It is possible that the stated gross train weight is less than the sum of the stated maximum permissible laden weight of the towing vehicle and the stated maximum permissible laden trailer weight. In this case the towing vehicle and the trailer must be loaded such that each does not exceed its individual maximum limit and the sum of both does not exceed the maximum gross train weight.

I am at a loss to see how they can say it’s “C1”….. any ideas? [/QUOTE]

Speaking to the trailer people they split the load between the trailer and the truck 3 tonne on the trailer and 1.5 tonne on the truck

Navara has air suspension fitted and air brakes on the trailer

But

Navara can carry approx 1 tonne in the back and 100kg on a standard ball hitch & tow 2600kg

So no idea nothing seems to add up for it, but they can deliver one in 4 -5 weeks

[Nos4r2]

I can't see how it's C1+E even. Looks like B+E to me and a dodgy one at that as the MAM for the trailer has to be considerably higher than the weight of the pickup even though it's split. Not sure how they work it out.

[Nos4r2]

It appears the wiki is wrong-here's the licence categories on Pdf for anyone interested. Appears that the 5th wheel trailer is legal too as long as it's within the axle weights for the vehicle.

However, you still need a tacho fitted and an operators licence for anything used commercially where the train weight is over 3500kg-see this link page 10.

[Jono]

Originally Posted by Nos4r2

... Appears that the 5th wheel trailer is legal too as long as it's within the axle weights for the vehicle..

Nos,

Can you point me in the direction of the bumf on 5th Wheelers?

Can't find Navara rated for towing anything more than 2,700 Kg.... So 4,500..even allowing for 5th wheel weight of 1,050 (Navara Payload) is still "out" ? Have asked trailer manufacturer to explain. If they can be "legal" I am tempted to look hard at them

[John Kennett]

Originally Posted by m chappelow

the problem then may arisewith the fact that with a 5th wheel coupling it may class the vehicle as articulated or semi trailer and not a normal close coupled one ,so you may need a lgv licence even if its less than the permited weight ,

There's no distinction between trailer types for licencing purposes, and withe the exception of "grandfather" rights there hasn't been since the old HGV I II III licences were replaced by C and C+E (about fifteen years or so ago).

John

[Nos4r2]

Originally Posted by Jono

Nos,

Can you point me in the direction of the bumf on 5th Wheelers?

Can't find Navara rated for towing anything more than 2,700 Kg.... So 4,500..even allowing for 5th wheel weight of 1,050 (Navara Payload) is still "out" ? Have asked trailer manufacturer to explain. If they can be "legal" I am tempted to look hard at them

I think the old shape Navara had a higher towing weight-Honest Johns says the 02-05 models were rated to 3000kg though they say some pretty uncomplimentary things about the engine too.
http://www.honestjohn.co.uk/carbycar/index.htm?md=638

As John said, there's no distinction between 5th wheel and normal trailers. As long as it all falls within the plated axle weights for the car and trailer it's legal as long as you've got a licence to drive it.

I get the feeling it's a bit of a grey area though. I wouldn't be surprised if it was 'clarified' by DVLA at some point which may well screw some people.

[Alan]

[QUOTE=Rogue Wave;270231A friend has offered me his F250 with a Cummins V8 diesel and a fifth wheel coupling. I'm quite interested in it as I need to get the jet boat more mobile.
what I don't want to do is buy a fkk off big truck I don't have a use for........again [/QUOTE]

An F250 with a Cummins diesel would be a strange beast given that Ford fit their own Powerstroke units to F series trucks. Are you sure you don't mean a Dodge Ram 2500?

[Jono]

Originally Posted by Alan

An F250 with a Cummins diesel would be a strange beast given that Ford fit their own Powerstroke units to F series trucks. Are you sure you don't mean a Dodge Ram 2500?

Not "uncommon" to repower with Cummins in the UK... Common as muck engine here. Thought about dropping the one out of my old Leyland into my truck to replace the 351 Windsor....but Feck it..it don't do enough miles to warrant that..and that V8 sound... you canna beat it

[Rogue Wave]

Originally Posted by Alan

An F250 with a Cummins diesel would be a strange beast given that Ford fit their own Powerstroke units to F series trucks. Are you sure you don't mean a Dodge Ram 2500?

Yes your right enough in what you say

The Ford Powerstorokes AKA powerjokes are straight 6 engines and are designed by International my buddy, a marine engineer, passed on last year and his widow is asking me if I was interested in the pickup. When he was alive I remember having a chat with him about the truck and he told me that for a short period they used Cummins engines which were vastly superior to the Ford lumps.

I haven't been to look at it since it was offered to me as I'm determined to find a use for it before I saddle myself with a big road engine. (I'm so proud of my willpower )

To get back on to the thrust of the question
I am not a director of the company who owns the boat (my wife and son are)
so if I were to tow it somewhere for no reward would I need a tachograph amd an O licence. I'm not so bothered about the tacho but the O licene comes with a lot of hoo haa for somethig I'm unlikely to do more tha 5 times a year.

[Pete7]

Originally Posted by Rogue Wave

To get back on to the thrust of the question
I am not a director of the company who owns the boat (my wife and son are)

Well should be quite simple then. What would a business case suggest?

contract someone else to tow it at £200 a trip x 5 pa so £1000

or

DIY with suitable vehicle, if so what are the annual costs?

Pete

[Bigmuz7]

Originally Posted by Rogue Wave

To get back on to the thrust of the question

How about becoming a gippo then .. tow anything of any size, in any combination with impunity, and I'm not sure if they even have to run on white

[Nos4r2]

Stu, I think you might need an MOT for the trailer as well.

http://www.motorcaravanning.com/vehicles/towing.htm


You need to ring VOSA really and have a chat. Just don't give your name

[Rogue Wave]

Originally Posted by Bigmuz7

How about becoming a gippo then .. tow anything of any size, in any combination with impunity, and I'm not sure if they even have to run on white

Good point, there is always that option, I'm certainly scruffy enough to get away with it and I am alergic to paperwork.

[Downhilldai]

A white Transit should do the job then

[willk]

Originally Posted by Bigmuz7

How about becoming a gippo then .. tow anything of any size, in any combination with impunity, and I'm not sure if they even have to run on white

The fact that it is someone else's boat will help your disguise .