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Old 22 November 2015, 09:11   #1
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electric winch..HELP AGAIN!!

i'm looking for some forum experts if possible on this before i toss 400 quid away potentially on a DL tw9000 (a 3000lb winch)..

SEE HERE- https://www.dutton-lainson.com/206339.pdf

my concerns-

i'm having a hard time believing the winch will have enough power to pull my boat upto the snubber with authority. All the maths and data forms i've looked at suggest it will struggle, not what i want from 400 quid winch!

unfortunately there doesn't seem to be an industry standard method for winch rating. my current 3500lb winch will pull 1700lbs when on the last layer of wire and at 190amps, i.e near the snubber and assuming you have an amazing power source (forget car battery at those amps). i know you need to factor in the slip angle and the advantage rollers give though, that is where it gets tricky for me.

that 1700lb i mention specifically says is a rolling load which will be road or rail wheels depending on the online winch chart you use. is that better or worse than our roller trailers? my logic being i can't push my boat off the trailer on the flat, but i can push the boat on the trailer so i'm assuming (dangerous!) a rolling load these charts mention is easier by a factor of X than loading on a roller trailer.

this tw9000 is actually a 3000lb winch, the snubber part it pulls also circa 1900lbs according to their own chart on the link above. i'm having a very hard time convincing myself it is enough to do the job with ease, especially if i need to stop and start for some reason near the snubber.

what worries me is this- i once tried to use my 3500lb electric winch to pull my old boat (trailer and boat 2200lbs) and trailer up an incline of 18 degrees (very very steep private slipway) and to say it was struggling was an understatement. i actually gave up winching it up and went and borrowed a jeep from the yard to get it up the slip. in theory i was well under the limit but it sure didn't sound like it when i was doing it! hence my concern for doing this in "comfort"

i'm as confused as a newt as they say, does anyone have experience of this before i pull the trigger?

BTW...the ribcraft is 2700lbs confirmed full tank with usual kit on board.
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Old 22 November 2015, 09:58   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xk59D View Post
i'm looking for some forum experts if possible on this before i toss 400 quid away potentially on a DL tw9000 (a 3000lb winch)..

SEE HERE- https://www.dutton-lainson.com/206339.pdf

my concerns-

i'm having a hard time believing the winch will have enough power to pull my boat upto the snubber with authority. All the maths and data forms i've looked at suggest it will struggle, not what i want from 400 quid winch!

unfortunately there doesn't seem to be an industry standard method for winch rating. my current 3500lb winch will pull 1700lbs when on the last layer of wire and at 190amps, i.e near the snubber and assuming you have an amazing power source (forget car battery at those amps). i know you need to factor in the slip angle and the advantage rollers give though, that is where it gets tricky for me.

that 1700lb i mention specifically says is a rolling load which will be road or rail wheels depending on the online winch chart you use. is that better or worse than our roller trailers? my logic being i can't push my boat off the trailer on the flat, but i can push the boat on the trailer so i'm assuming (dangerous!) a rolling load these charts mention is easier by a factor of X than loading on a roller trailer.

this tw9000 is actually a 3000lb winch, the snubber part it pulls also circa 1900lbs according to their own chart on the link above. i'm having a very hard time convincing myself it is enough to do the job with ease, especially if i need to stop and start for some reason near the snubber.

what worries me is this- i once tried to use my 3500lb electric winch to pull my old boat (trailer and boat 2200lbs) and trailer up an incline of 18 degrees (very very steep private slipway) and to say it was struggling was an understatement. i actually gave up winching it up and went and borrowed a jeep from the yard to get it up the slip. in theory i was well under the limit but it sure didn't sound like it when i was doing it! hence my concern for doing this in "comfort"

i'm as confused as a newt as they say, does anyone have experience of this before i pull the trigger?

BTW...the ribcraft is 2700lbs confirmed full tank with usual kit on board.

PM sent


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Old 22 November 2015, 10:14   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xk59D View Post
i'm looking for some forum experts if possible on this before i toss 400 quid away potentially on a DL tw9000 (a 3000lb winch)..

SEE HERE- https://www.dutton-lainson.com/206339.pdf

my concerns-

i'm having a hard time believing the winch will have enough power to pull my boat upto the snubber with authority. All the maths and data forms i've looked at suggest it will struggle, not what i want from 400 quid winch!

unfortunately there doesn't seem to be an industry standard method for winch rating. my current 3500lb winch will pull 1700lbs when on the last layer of wire and at 190amps, i.e near the snubber and assuming you have an amazing power source (forget car battery at those amps). i know you need to factor in the slip angle and the advantage rollers give though, that is where it gets tricky for me.

that 1700lb i mention specifically says is a rolling load which will be road or rail wheels depending on the online winch chart you use. is that better or worse than our roller trailers? my logic being i can't push my boat off the trailer on the flat, but i can push the boat on the trailer so i'm assuming (dangerous!) a rolling load these charts mention is easier by a factor of X than loading on a roller trailer.

this tw9000 is actually a 3000lb winch, the snubber part it pulls also circa 1900lbs according to their own chart on the link above. i'm having a very hard time convincing myself it is enough to do the job with ease, especially if i need to stop and start for some reason near the snubber.

what worries me is this- i once tried to use my 3500lb electric winch to pull my old boat (trailer and boat 2200lbs) and trailer up an incline of 18 degrees (very very steep private slipway) and to say it was struggling was an understatement. i actually gave up winching it up and went and borrowed a jeep from the yard to get it up the slip. in theory i was well under the limit but it sure didn't sound like it when i was doing it! hence my concern for doing this in "comfort"

i'm as confused as a newt as they say, does anyone have experience of this before i pull the trigger?

BTW...the ribcraft is 2700lbs confirmed full tank with usual kit on board.

But you're not lifting the dead weight, you are pulling. On the horizontal you only have to overcome friction, even if you were pulling up a 45deg slip, you'd still only be pulling half the dead weight plus a touch of rolling resistance. The friction between boat & trailer actually reduces as the slip gets steeper, but the dead weight increases. In theory a 2000lb/1 tonne winch should p155 it.


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Old 22 November 2015, 11:01   #4
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I can assure you my 3500lbs winch wasn't happy. It isn't an eBay special btw, it is a power winch 3500, hence my concern.
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Old 22 November 2015, 12:09   #5
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190amps, i.e near the snubber and assuming you have an amazing power source (forget car battery at those amps).
At twelve volts you're not going to have many options other than a car battery.
That equates roughly to starter motor cranking current so you'd need a dedicated battery for the job as it'd blow the 4r$e out your alternator if you tried to use the car's battery with the engine running.
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Old 22 November 2015, 12:21   #6
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John,

I have a dedicated HD battery for the job.

The maths doesn't support the tw9000 pulling it without a struggle based on my limited knowledge, especially if it stops near the snubber. I would like a lot of comfort room for longevity and speed sake.

I have little experience of this other than when I first bought the winch to pull my old combo up the slip. I asked on the forum back then and was told 3500 was plenty, in practice it is far from it. It would have worked I think but you could hear the strain on it and it was getting hot so I wrapped it in. That was ofcourse pulling the boat and trailer up a ramp at less weight than the ribcraft, it was very steep though and not akin to a normal ramp if you like.

I'm going to mount my 3500lb winch as a test, I just need to mod it to bolt on or I would have tried it today with you guys.
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Old 22 November 2015, 12:24   #7
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Superpower winch uk don't know if it's what your after but some good winches

Cheers
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Old 22 November 2015, 12:41   #8
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How about a 2:1 reduction with mounting a pulley on the load and anchoring the end of the strap next to the winch ?
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Old 22 November 2015, 12:43   #9
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How about a 2:1 reduction with mounting a pulley on the load and anchoring the end of the strap next to the winch ?
If gets OTT then certainly an option, look sweet at loch Lomond taking 5 mins to move the boat 10 feet though won't it! Total ponse lol
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Old 22 November 2015, 13:09   #10
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Jambo has kindly passed on some info with someone using the winch for a near as damn same weight. Thanks for that, I wonder how fast it is though........
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Old 22 November 2015, 13:13   #11
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Hi
I first used 3000lb Winchmax run from a 45AH car battery, this pulled 6.5 Mtr RIB back on the trailer in under a minute. I think it has 15Mtr of cable on the drum which gives the option of using a snatch block if it struggled (this option would double the pulling power but take nearly two minutes to recover), or reduce the length of the cable on the drum if I wanted to.



Never had any issues with the 3000lb winch but I now use the 4000lb which has the jet wash unit

Good luck with yours
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Old 22 November 2015, 13:23   #12
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What boat and engine buddy?
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Old 22 November 2015, 13:41   #13
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6.5 Humber Destroyer with Ficht 150. The winch is pulling about a ton when we recover onto a roller trailer.
It took us a long time to be convinced a little electric winch could pull this up knowing how hard it is to winch by hand. Could not believe how easy the electric winch did it. Wish we had switched years ago.


Like PD said; -

But you're not lifting the dead weight, you are pulling. On the horizontal you only have to overcome friction, even if you were pulling up a 45deg slip, you'd still only be pulling half the dead weight plus a touch of rolling resistance. The friction between boat & trailer actually reduces as the slip gets steeper, but the dead weight increases. In theory a 2000lb/1 tonne winch should p155 it.


Hope it helps
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Old 22 November 2015, 13:51   #14
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Click image for larger version

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Fit one of these Bad Boys if your worried about pulling power
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Old 22 November 2015, 15:09   #15
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The max draw of the tw9000 is 70A


.....sh1t happens.......
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Old 22 November 2015, 16:06   #16
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As someone with this model ,,,, 6m Cobra normal towed/recover weight Inc 80 litres fuel @1200 kg plus usually recover with 1x 12l twinset, 2 x 15l and 3ltr 's. 30kg weight belts and kit approx 160 kg . Total 1360 + kg . I also often have one crew on board during retrieval
Never had any problems. As others say - it's a rolling load as opposed to a deadlift
I don't think you will have an issue
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Old 22 November 2015, 16:57   #17
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Jeff, thanks for the information and it certainly helps re-assure my doubts.
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Old 22 November 2015, 19:09   #18
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update, an un-expected one.

the trailer has the wrong winch on it from SBS i have just noticed while looking at everything i brought home today, it isn't what i was told it would be anyway.

it is a DL 2000a 2 speed winch, it should be the DL2500a 2 speed winch. the difference is the gear reduction is 12.4:1 and i thought it was the 2500's 17.3:1. that would explain why winching my boat on has always been a bit of a PITA and required you have the weetabix to wind up the last 5 feet.

i'll order up the 2500 and be content there for now, i will revisit the leccy option in the future or if someone ever sells one.
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Old 23 November 2015, 04:37   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xk59D View Post
update, an un-expected one.

the trailer has the wrong winch on it from SBS i have just noticed while looking at everything i brought home today, it isn't what i was told it would be anyway.

it is a DL 2000a 2 speed winch, it should be the DL2500a 2 speed winch. the difference is the gear reduction is 12.4:1 and i thought it was the 2500's 17.3:1. that would explain why winching my boat on has always been a bit of a PITA and required you have the weetabix to wind up the last 5 feet.

i'll order up the 2500 and be content there for now, i will revisit the leccy option in the future or if someone ever sells one.
That would explain it....I was wondering what all the Fuss was about!...got the same Rig,and it's very easy and straight forward to use/recover.
I'm sure you'll find yours the same now
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Old 23 November 2015, 10:06   #20
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Indeed it does, glad I double checked everything before ordering now.

The leccy winch has an appeal for sure but it was I need to change to it rather than I want to as if something happened to me there is no way someone else can get the boat on properly.

It should be 40% easier now (and slower unfortunately) so that should be fine.
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