Auto Reverse not working - Page 3

Sargan · 27 May 2018, 23:28

Logically though backing off the rods until brakes don't work would mean I am backing off the actuating for the brakes in normal mode.
I can't see how this would work .. be a bit like disconnecting rod - yes it would reverse but no barking going fwd ( and yes did do this step to check it out)

I spoke to Indespension last week - they actually seems to give contrary advice to others (incl AlKo) - brakes should be much tighter than normal ... i.e when backing off .. only just enough so they can only just be spun with effort ......... their view is shoes need friction to force then to trip the cam. I'm at point of giving up and taking it to a workshop ..... in 30 years of boating never had this before.

beamishken · 28 May 2018, 05:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sargan

Logically though backing off the rods until brakes don't work would mean I am backing off the actuating for the brakes in normal mode.
I can't see how this would work .. be a bit like disconnecting rod - yes it would reverse but no barking going fwd ( and yes did do this step to check it out)

I spoke to Indespension last week - they actually seems to give contrary advice to others (incl AlKo) - brakes should be much tighter than normal ... i.e when backing off .. only just enough so they can only just be spun with effort ......... their view is shoes need friction to force then to trip the cam. I'm at point of giving up and taking it to a workshop ..... in 30 years of boating never had this before.

I said try backing off untill you can reverse and see if you still have brakes and if you dont then back to the drawing board.
Blindly repeatedly following the same instructions isnt going to fix your problem hence the suggestion to try something else.
It will take 5 mins to do and will harm nothing.

Sargan · 28 May 2018, 09:21

I have tried, 5,10,20 & 30mm play .... feel too much risk to normal braking to put in more than that.

I appreciate comments here, and I’m not blindly following AlKo instructions, have also followed suggestions here, advice by Indespension, and from local trailer depot.

Had 3 others also look at setup in case I’m missing something.
So frustrating.

Pikey Dave · 28 May 2018, 09:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by beamishken

........
Blindly repeatedly following the same instructions isnt going to fix your problem.....

+1, at the risk of going off topic, but to reinforce your point. I recently called technical support for my autopilot. I've had a problem with the pilot not holding course, I've followed the commissioning & setup procedures several times to the letter; no joy. I called support & they told me that in their experience on fast planing hulls, it was best to ignore what the book said & do XYZ instead, I've still to try it out, but it just goes to show.

Sargan · 28 May 2018, 09:30

Tried setting that way, then yesterday as someone advised backing off shoes, tried loosening.
Will try setting them much tighter today (more drag)

Sargan · 28 May 2018, 09:46

Forgot to add ... found written comments (in docs provided here) that “over adjustment of brakes will cause auto reverse to fail to operate”. .... but I’m willing to try.

beamishken · 28 May 2018, 18:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sargan

Forgot to add ... found written comments (in docs provided here) that “over adjustment of brakes will cause auto reverse to fail to operate”. .... but I’m willing to try.

I think you will find that refers to over adjustment as in too tight not backed off too far.
I think you are over adjusted hence my saying to back off almost to the point of no brakes going forward then adjust back up to the point just before the auto reverse stops working again

You've tried working from the point of fully adjusted one way no harm to try fully adjusted the other way and see what happens

Sargan · 28 May 2018, 19:41

Set brakes correct, again.
First to locked, then back off just enough that wheel can be spun and rotates 1.5 turns before ‘drag’ stops wheel.

Tested - same.

Then backed off adjusters all round by 2 clicks ...Tested, same.
Backed off another 2 clicks ... so totall6 Free tonspon ... Tested, same.

Tried it with. It’s no play in actuator rod, 5mm and 10mm play - still won’t reverse ... at 10mm play, handbrake could not hold boat on the drive.

Indespension explained that brakes should be only just backed off, they need to come on as soon as reversing starts .. to allow shoe to trip the auto-reverse cam.
I did try this and checked the Bowden cable movement as advised earlier in thread.

beamishken · 28 May 2018, 20:04

When you adjust the shoes in the hub with the cabled disconnected if you adjust so the drum locks rotating forwards can you then rotate the drum backwards or does it lock both ways?

Sargan · 28 May 2018, 22:40

Not tried that .... only ? is how much force will be needed to rotate wheel when 'brakes' applied (or simply adjusted up to lock) ... and can I do that by hand.

beamishken · 28 May 2018, 23:22

The idea would be to adjust up till the wheel locks going forward and see if it unlocks as it should rotating backwards that will determine if the problem lies in the drum or linkages

Sargan · 29 May 2018, 08:51

Understand .... just unsure if I will be able to apply enough rotational force to move wheel ....

beamishken · 29 May 2018, 09:28

Wheel should rotate easily in reverse even if locked in forward if not the problem lies in the drum

oisin.higgins · 29 May 2018, 11:20

I've been following this thread from the start as it's an issue I've had with many a boat trailer in the past. Great info

Here's another thread that may be of some use: http://www.4x4community.co.za/forum/...avan-reversing

I've taken to carrying a block as I've gotten fed up of wheels locking when trying to reverse.

Sargan · 01 June 2018, 21:01

Spent another 4-5 Hrs ... put trailer up on stands.
Operated handbrake, could not turn wheels in reverse.
Increased gap in actuator rod at compensator until brakes could be turned by hand in reverse.
At this point rod has about 30mm of play ... whereas it should have none, but tried it to test.
Hooked up car ... same fault.

Spoke to a couple of trailer specialists ... interesting that they said put a clip in place to prevent brake operation when reversing .... ...like they used to be back in 70’s. (Similar to link in post above)

beamishken · 02 June 2018, 17:10

I think you have something assembled wrong somewhere in the drums

Sargan · 02 June 2018, 20:10

Stripped drums down again ... and with 2 guys watching assembled as per AlKo and Indespension manuals.
So had 3 pairs of eyes confirming things are correct .... you don’t dismantle the autoreverse cam assembly, so those are 100% correct.

Jeff · 02 June 2018, 21:26

I am sure you know what you are doing given all the time and effort you have spent and the fact that the issue is across all 4 hubs. Can you post a photo of the set up hubs to see if there is anything obvious. Seems very odd issue with otherwise good brakes.

Sargan · 02 June 2018, 22:12

I don't know if it across all 4 hubs ..... for sure when reversing up a slop at time brakes lock on ... all weight is on rear axle, you can for sure hear the rear axle brakes coming on.
Here is pic of assembled back plate... I did after the pic was taken, lubricated the expander clutch (swivel pin) and cam swivel pin.

I have uploaded pic of what the assembly should look like -AlKo Backplate ... and also pic of the actual backplate.
Obviously offside near side are mirror images ........... I made certain thet for each backplate the swivel pin of the expander clutch was on the same side as the autoreverse cam.

Jeff · 02 June 2018, 22:39

That's definitely a mystery [emoji52]🤨