Auto Reverse not working - Page 2

Jeff · 20 May 2018, 12:43

I change my bowdens every year ,,,, a bit over the top with the stainless ones, but a usual source of problems [emoji856]

Sargan · 20 May 2018, 15:26

Are the stainless ones much more expensive?
Where do you source yours from ?

Jeff · 20 May 2018, 16:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sargan

Are the stainless ones much more expensive?
Where do you source yours from ?

I only change annually because of a long haul across Europe each summer and don't want any issues at all. I also replace my 'sealed for life'

bearings at least every 2

The stainless cables should be good for 2-3 years I suspect.

My last purchases were here

ALKO Brake Shoes, Cables & Parts - PIK Trailers

but also check :
https://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_f...ables&_sacat=0

Sargan · 20 May 2018, 20:56

Thanks will try them.

paintman · 21 May 2018, 17:01

Been working at the caravan place today & had a chat with the Techs. If the brakes are adjusted as you would a car handbrake then there will be insufficient room in the drum for the collapsing shoe to do so & you'll have the problem you've got. Apparently it's a very common issue.

To correctly adjust Al-Ko auto reverse brakes:
1. Safely jack up & support the trailer, using chocks to stop it rolling as you are going to be disconnecting the cables from the equaliser.
2. Disconnect the equaliser end of a cable from the equaliser - I believe these may look like a mushroom (they did on the caravan he was showing me on).
3. Ensure the shoes are centred in the hub & the shoes are in normal running position.
4. Adjust the shoes with their adjuster until the drum stops & then back the adjuster off until the drum is free to rotate. Do NOT rotate the drum backwards during any part of the operation.
5. Go back to the equaliser end of the cable. Look at where the inner cable enters the outer & mark the cable at that point - he suggests wax crayon or similar.
6. Grip the mushroom & pull so the shoes are applied - he has a homemade tool that looks like a strong fork with a handle.
7. Whilst holding the cable out measure the distance between your original mark and where the cable enters the outer. This must be between 5 and 8mm.
8. If not let go of the cable & adjust the shoes by using their adjuster. Pull the cable & recheck the distance. Repeat until you have the correct measurement.
9. Repeat for the other units.
10. Then slacken off the equaliser rod & reconnect the mushrooms to the equaliser. There must be play - as in the rod must not be pulling on the cables with the handbrake off - so a small amount of slack is necessary & you may need to adjust the equaliser.

Hopefully this is the solution to your problem.

Jeff · 21 May 2018, 17:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by paintman

Been working at the caravan place today & had a chat with the Techs. If the brakes are adjusted as you would a car handbrake then there will be insufficient room in the drum for the collapsing shoe to do so & you'll have the problem you've got. Apparently it's a very common issue.

To correctly adjust Al-Ko auto reverse brakes:
1. Safely jack up & support the trailer, using chocks to stop it rolling as you are going to be disconnecting the cables from the equaliser.
2. Disconnect the equaliser end of a cable from the equaliser - I believe these will look like a mushroom
3. Ensure the shoes are centred in the hub & the shoes are in normal running position.
4. Adjust the shoes with their adjuster until the drum stops & then back the adjuster off until the drum is free to rotate. Do NOT rotate the drum backwards during any part of the operation.
5. Go back to the equaliser end of the cable. Look at where the inner cable enters the outer & mark the cable at that point - he suggests wax crayon or similar.
6. Grip the mushroom & pull so the shoes are applied - he has a homemade tool that looks like a strong fork with a handle.
7. Whilst holding the cable out measure the distance between your original mark and where the cable enters the outer. This must be between 5 and 8mm.
8. If not let go of the cable & adjust the shoes by using their adjuster. Pull the cable & recheck the distance. Repeat until you have the correct measurement.
9. Repeat for the other units.
10. Then slacken off the equaliser rod & reconnect the mushrooms. There must be play - as in the rod must not be pulling on the cables with the handbrake off - so a small amount of slack is necessary.

Hopefully this is the solution to your problem.

http://www.al-ko.co.uk/edit/files/ha...dbookwhite.pdf

I dont think there should be any slack in the rod - just enough clearance of the shoes in the drums

Bigplumbs · 21 May 2018, 17:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by paintman

Been working at the caravan place today & had a chat with the Techs. If the brakes are adjusted as you would a car handbrake then there will be insufficient room in the drum for the collapsing shoe to do so & you'll have the problem you've got. Apparently it's a very common issue.

To correctly adjust Al-Ko auto reverse brakes:
1. Safely jack up & support the trailer, using chocks to stop it rolling as you are going to be disconnecting the cables from the equaliser.
2. Disconnect the equaliser end of a cable from the equaliser - I believe these may look like a mushroom (they did on the caravan he was showing me on).
3. Ensure the shoes are centred in the hub & the shoes are in normal running position.
4. Adjust the shoes with their adjuster until the drum stops & then back the adjuster off until the drum is free to rotate. Do NOT rotate the drum backwards during any part of the operation.
5. Go back to the equaliser end of the cable. Look at where the inner cable enters the outer & mark the cable at that point - he suggests wax crayon or similar.
6. Grip the mushroom & pull so the shoes are applied - he has a homemade tool that looks like a strong fork with a handle.
7. Whilst holding the cable out measure the distance between your original mark and where the cable enters the outer. This must be between 5 and 8mm.
8. If not let go of the cable & adjust the shoes by using their adjuster. Pull the cable & recheck the distance. Repeat until you have the correct measurement.
9. Repeat for the other units.
10. Then slacken off the equaliser rod & reconnect the mushrooms to the equaliser. There must be play - as in the rod must not be pulling on the cables with the handbrake off - so a small amount of slack is necessary & you may need to adjust the equaliser.

Hopefully this is the solution to your problem.

Sounds very useful. I could not help feeling that my Knot brakes were easier to set once replaced

Pikey Dave · 21 May 2018, 17:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by paintman

Been working at the caravan place today & had a chat with the Techs. If the brakes are adjusted as you would a car handbrake then there will be insufficient room in the drum for the collapsing shoe to do so & you'll have the problem you've got. Apparently it's a very common issue.

To correctly adjust Al-Ko auto reverse brakes:
1. Safely jack up & support the trailer, using chocks to stop it rolling as you are going to be disconnecting the cables from the equaliser.
2. Disconnect the equaliser end of a cable from the equaliser - I believe these may look like a mushroom (they did on the caravan he was showing me on).
3. Ensure the shoes are centred in the hub & the shoes are in normal running position.
4. Adjust the shoes with their adjuster until the drum stops & then back the adjuster off until the drum is free to rotate. Do NOT rotate the drum backwards during any part of the operation.
5. Go back to the equaliser end of the cable. Look at where the inner cable enters the outer & mark the cable at that point - he suggests wax crayon or similar.
6. Grip the mushroom & pull so the shoes are applied - he has a homemade tool that looks like a strong fork with a handle.
7. Whilst holding the cable out measure the distance between your original mark and where the cable enters the outer. This must be between 5 and 8mm.
8. If not let go of the cable & adjust the shoes by using their adjuster. Pull the cable & recheck the distance. Repeat until you have the correct measurement.
9. Repeat for the other units.
10. Then slacken off the equaliser rod & reconnect the mushrooms to the equaliser. There must be play - as in the rod must not be pulling on the cables with the handbrake off - so a small amount of slack is necessary & you may need to adjust the equaliser.

Hopefully this is the solution to your problem.

Chances are, the adjusters will be seized & they are a bitch to free off, its a strip down & brute force job to get them moving.

Sargan · 21 May 2018, 21:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pikey Dave

Chances are, the adjusters will be seized & they are a bitch to free off, its a strip down & brute force job to get them moving.

Adjusters fully free as I completely strip & clean, then grease and releasable each service. They are a bitch to get to on the port side.

Thanks for description (and for asking Q) .... to be honest that is almost exactly the sequence I followed .... with exception that Indespension do not say to undo the compensator (to release mushroom heads) ....

When I get newBowden cables I'll try this set up.

Only real difference, is that Indespension instructions were to tighten up brakes until locked, then back off until - when you give the wheel a spin ... it will rotate 1.5 turns before stopping .. i.e, some drag not fully clear.

They do say check for 5-8mm play in cable - which I did have.

Interesting that for point 10 - Indespension & Alko say zero clearance, but several people advise to put in clearance.

Picking up new Bowden cables tomorrow - so will fit these on Friday.
Then will grease the actuators (spreaders) at same time.

Sargan · 21 May 2018, 22:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeff

I dont think there should be any slack in the rod - just enough clearance of the shoes in the drums

That is what it says in AlKo tech paper and the Indespension manual.

paintman · 22 May 2018, 07:22

I'm just passing on what I was told & shown by someone who's been servicing & repairing caravans full time for over 30 years.
By 'slack' we're talking just in contact with the cable ends to be sure that none of the cables are tensioned - not several mm of free movement.
Leave it with you.

Sargan · 22 May 2018, 11:40

Comments are appreciated - thnx.

Sargan · 26 May 2018, 22:30

OK ... another all day on this ...
All 4 hubs off again, expander clutches lubricated, and the auto reverse cams.
Fitted 4 new Bowden cables
4 new cable ends and 4 half shell covers.
Had 2 mates come and check adjustments & setup.

Adjusted exactly as per AL-Ko manual .... same again, brakes fine, hand brake fine ... but When reversing as soon as coupling at end of stroke ( bellows compressed) ... i.e. as soon as I reverse up a slope ... brakes lock on.

beamishken · 27 May 2018, 08:29

When you back up are you backing hard enough to roll the shoes back to release i regularly tow a 3.5t goods trailer and occasionally have to drop into low range if backing a heavy load up a slope just to overcome the initial brake effect and get the shoes to release.

My other thought is do they release then re apply because of extra travel on the hitch maybe more slack required at hitch end?
It may be you need more slack until everything beds in after a few runs
Another thought is is the damper working correctly?

Sargan · 27 May 2018, 08:54

Damper goes through full travel - in under pressure, and return out fine ... so don’t see any issue there.
Had this trailer for 5 years ... always reversed up drive no problem previously.
Had a mate with 3.5t pick up try ... in low rate he could push it , one hell of a force, basically skidding wheels, and they still did not release.

Tried. Putting 3, 5 and 20mm slack in actuating rod, still same.
After full set up yesterday, 2 thing I notice.

1. Is that when I apply handbrake is is not exactly vertical (90) it is at about 11 o’clock position.
Thinking I may back off brake adjustment by equal amount on all 4 wheels (maybe 2 clicks) and see if that brings it to 90 degrees and test again.
Brakes certainly set correctly ..adjusted until almost locked, and backed off just enough that if you spin wheel .. it will do 1.5 rotations before drag stops it. (AlKo described method)

2. When I reverse and they lock on, looking at compensator, the swivel sections are not remaining in line showing that auto reverse is not releasing.

beamishken · 27 May 2018, 09:10

Id do as you plan and back off in the drums untill everything has run a little then readjust as needed
I always set brakes so they apply later ie under heavier braking rather than just with a dab on the pedal

Sargan · 27 May 2018, 18:07

Slackened off all 4 brakes .. it did put handbrake in fully 90 degree position ... thought it looked promising ... but no, the rear brakes lock on as soon as I reverse up a slope (my drive). ...which is by no means steep.
Double checked, there is around 5mm of plat in actuating rod.

Frustrating.

beamishken · 27 May 2018, 18:50

Why not try going the other way and back off the actuating rod untill it will reverse then see if you have brakes? If you do then great your sorted if not then back to the drawing board
Clearly following the recommended procedure isnt working so maybe an alternative might work

Sargan · 27 May 2018, 21:33

The only thing is .. AlKo state there should be zero play .... I have increased it in stages to 5+mm
It is already loose & rattling .... if I open anymore I may lose normal braking ?

beamishken · 27 May 2018, 22:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sargan

The only thing is .. AlKo state there should be zero play .... I have increased it in stages to 5+mm
It is already loose & rattling .... if I open anymore I may lose normal braking ?

Like i said the standard setup procedure isnt working hence my suggestion to try a different tack
Obviously if you end up with no braking then its no good but i always seem to have loads of slack in my trailers operating rods which whilst maybe not to speck it works for me.
My background is motor trade & I've done brakes on lots of trailers and to be honest I've never read a set of set up instructions i just adjust so they work as i want them to work.