Speed camera

[Scary Des]

Originally Posted by AndyB007

... but the article you refer to relates to causality of speed and accident frequency, not injury levels....

Ooooops sorry wrong link try this Des

[widey]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/south_east/4550494.stm

[codprawn]

Originally Posted by widey

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/south_east/4550494.stm

Nice to see they have changed their attitude a bit!!!

"AN estimated 2,500 drivers who were wrongly fined and given penalty points when a speed camera was placed in the wrong position are not being told of the error.
The drivers, who collectively paid £150,000 in fines, were photographed on the M4 near Newport in South Wales. The camera was to monitor vehicles passing roadworks with a 50mph limit. Instead, it was placed 200 metres past the speed restriction and drivers who were legally accelerating up to 70mph were caught."

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/printFr...864834,00.html

Scum or what???

[codprawn]

Originally Posted by golfbravo06

Just seen on the news the number of offences caught on camers whether it be red light offences, speed offences or bus lane offences is up 6% and as much as i hate to admit it, its us men that are the worst...9 out of 10 offences committed by us!

Marvellous figures - given that many of the prosecutions are themselves illegal.

They introduced cameras to catch people blocking yellow box junctions. After several prosecutions were made an angry motorist fought back. Apparently the council traffic planners didn't know that it was LEGAL to wait on a box junction whilst turning right!!!

[AndyB007]

Originally Posted by Scary Des

Ooooops sorry wrong link try this Des

To quote from this site; “We do not doubt the claim of the proportions of deaths at various impact speeds."

What this site disputes (and I agree has merit) is the assertion that a car travelling at 40mph will hit a pedestrian at 40mph without taking any avoiding action. As it tries to illustrate (although their maths is flawed) the effects of an attentive driver Vs an inattentive or inexperienced driver has a greater effect than two equally attentive/experienced drivers travelling at different speeds. I agree with them on this point (and of course here we can bring in the mobile phone argument, hands free or otherwise).

The information on fatality rates is interesting (IMHO) because of the significant rise in probability of fatality between a 20mph collision and a 30mph or 40mph collision, hence my reason for posting.

An interesting ( ) fact from this site I haven't seen before is that "the West Midlands Accident Review has it that in 61% of cases the pedestrian simply stepped, walked or ran from the foot path". Reinforces the industry view that separation of car and pedestrian is the only safe system!!

Sorry to all of you bored with this debate

Big, bouncy tubes - that's the answer!


Andy

[codprawn]

VERY IMPORTANT INFO

If you have been caught you may get off!!!

http://www.abd.org.uk/talivan_incompetence.htm

There are LOADS of stories here about prosecutions that should have never been brought!!!

And example below

2005 June — Dorset
Up to about 135,000 drivers. Up to around £38 million.
"Standard Dorset police notices have been used since the 1991 Road Traffic Act. It may mean prosecutions have been wrongfully commenced and fines and points wrongfully imposed against Dorset motorists for a number of years.
The potential cost to the Dorset Safety Camera Partnership is pretty staggering."

Fight them - they don't expect it!!!

[Scary Des]

Originally Posted by safespeed

...And that's not the only problem with the figures. We simply don't know what proportion of the pedestrian casualties took place in 30 mph speed limit zones. While we know that the vast majority of accidents involving pedestrians take place in town, it is very likely that out of town pedestrian impacts have a higher proportion of fatalities. It's only reasonable to conclude that significantly less than 2% of all pedestrians and significantly less than 0.7% of child pedestrians are killed in 30 mph zone accidents......

In other words we are focusing on controlling speed where the risk of death could be lower but not where it is higher but ultimately we don’t know like I said, don’t put too much faith in these figures Des

[Bigmuz7]

I still haven't seen the answer to this question, ( sorry if I missed it) can you be photographed going towards a mobile detector van situated on the other side of the road and be done ? I thought all the static cameras could not do this, so how come I get done by a sneaky mobile van with no markings on it?

[tcwozere]

I would say yes.. I was done whilst driving away from a camera van on the other side of a dual carriageway..

[Bigmuz7]

But I was photographed going towards a mobile unit

[codprawn]

They use laser which can measure your speed pretty well - having said that they aren't really supposed to measure at strange angles etc because of laser scatter.

There are good laser jammers about - supposed to be illegal but I can't see why it is illegal to emit light at a certain wavelength. In fact some cars have lasers to measure distance for adaptive cruise control which can jam the laser cameras!!!

Another solution would be to cover your car in soot or IR absorbent paint like a Land Rover!!!

[tcwozere]

Originally Posted by Bigmuz7

But I was photographed going towards a mobile unit

The mobile unit is run by a man who points a camera at you.. Doesn't really matter where he is, or where you are, as long as that camera can see you.. Seem to remember a documentary on South Yorkshire Police who were running a mobile speed trap from a different road, aiming it across a field at a dual carriageway.. As long as there are the signs to warn you that speed cameras are operating in the area, they can sit where they want.. It's only the static cameras that have to be painted yellow at the moment..

[Bigmuz7]

There were no signs no markings nothing, Dont get me wrong I'll take the points, but after 22 years with none you might see I'm a bit annoyed, since also the camera could have beamed me from further up the road, outside the 30 limit

[ian parkes]

See Motor cycle news

the mobile speed cameras have never been tested on Motorcycles and have now been found to be totaly inacurate .

MCN got one to test and got many wrong readings including one of a bike standing still which the camera said was breking the speed limit .

They are just revenue cameras nothing more .

[Bigmuz7]

It really is utter shite. Were being turned into lemmings

[codprawn]

No - sheep!!!

The nanny state is winning - taking away people's ability to think for themselves!!!

It is scary the number of people I see now waiting to cross a road who won't cross until they get the green man - even when there is nothing coming. Fair enough with old people but I am talking about fit young people. A few years ago they would have stuck their fingers up at the green man and crossed anyway!!!

I always used to be horrified the way the Swiss and Germans behaved like this - can't believe people in Britain behave like this as well.

[jwalker]

Originally Posted by codprawn

...It is scary the number of people I see now waiting to cross a road who won't cross until they get the green man..

Yeh, I do that. If I have to wait for a traffic light change in my car while pedestrians cross, when I'm a pedestrian, why shouldn't I wait for a traffic light change while the cars cross?

When cyclists sneek through the lights as though they are not bound by the rules, does that irritate you?

[ian parkes]

When cyclists sneek through the lights as though they are not bound by the rules, does that irritate you?
__________________

Not at all i can ride a bike and do the same if i want and take the risk of the car drivers knocking me off because they don't see me .

[codprawn]

Originally Posted by jwalker

Yeh, I do that. If I have to wait for a traffic light change in my car while pedestrians cross, when I'm a pedestrian, why shouldn't I wait for a traffic light change while the cars cross?

When cyclists sneek through the lights as though they are not bound by the rules, does that irritate you?

Why should it? Do it all the time when I ride a bike - wrong way down one way streets - you name it - great fun - no number plates!!! As long as it doesn't hurt anyone else what's the prob?

And I will jumpr red lights if they have deliberately taking away the filter arrows to bugger up traffic flow. I am quite capable of looking to the right to see when it's clear!!!

[ADS]

I haven't read all of this thread, too busy and been away in the lake District for a week.
It was only a few weeks ago when I was discussing this via PM with Tim M, although it appears 'Bob' has been caught out.
Now its all very well saying he's a t*** etc and yes he was speeding, has admitted his mistake, the road in question is not steriotypical of a 30mph so he wasn't driving dangerously. 45mph in a built up area, is not very clever but on a two lane road with armco etc, I would assume its safe.

Its all very well saying 'he should stop being a child and take the points but none of you seem to realise the magnitude of the situation, I will assume that none of you have taken your driving license recently or taken a theory test or hazard perception test. I would like to see you try. If 'Bob' takes the points he will have to drive like a nun for the remainder of the 2yr period, which will probably cause him to crash as he will be fixated on the speedo.
After taking the points if Bob goes through a 30mph camera at 33mph he will get BANNED. If Bob relies on his car for a job (such as some of my mates) he is feked. Back down the theory test centre and more driving lessons. For those still in the dark ages driving lessons are £17-25 /hour, learning to drive is very expensive -probably cost me just £800.
No point laying into younger drivers, there reactions are far quicker than a pensioner, and at least they drive by the book .....
The solution for younger drivers is to hairspray up your number plates, stick to the speed limits, and if doing long distance get a rader detector. The key is to stick with a slower car until you get your 12n points!

rant over,

Alex