BMW 530d a suitable tow-car?

[jlanng]

120k a year? You must virtually live in your car! Most I ever did was about 35 IIRC.

Have to say that I don't miss my Alfa 156 - it had the Selespeed gearbox which was horrible . Seemed like a good idea at the time

[codprawn]

Originally Posted by jlanng

120k a year? You must virtually live in your car! Most I ever did was about 35 IIRC.

Have to say that I don't miss my Alfa 156 - it had the Selespeed gearbox which was horrible . Seemed like a good idea at the time

Yes not far off - good job I love driving so much - trouble is British drivers have gone so selfish and bad tempered - I put it down to so called traffic calming!

Just returned from 3 weeks driving around France - Spain - Portugal - found drivers far better mannered - lane discipline great -= they use their mirrors - pull in to let you past then pull back out again - try that on British Motorways!

As to the Alfa never driven the Selespeed but have driven a Ferrari with paddle shifts - YUK - no wonder Clarkson hates them!

[jlanng]

Apparently it was the same system as the 355's F1 system - developed by Magnetti Marellli. Yuck indeed. The 360's is supposed to be a little better

[codprawn]

Originally Posted by jlanng

Apparently it was the same system as the 355's F1 system - developed by Magnetti Marellli. Yuck indeed. The 360's is supposed to be a little better

Will let you know - mate takes delivery of his 360 spyder in August

[Phil Davies]

Originally Posted by codprawn

the NEW Discovery which is totally different to the old one - in my opinion it will be a better road car but not as good in EXTREME off road conditions. The reason being the beam axles as used by every Land Rover have been ditched in favour of an independent setup like the new Range Rover.

Clearly you've never driven the new Range Rover off-road, which incidentally comfortably trounces Discoverys both on- and off-road and, in a Land Rover World test, also beat a Defender 90 on Mud Terrains (!!!!) in 7 out of the 10 off-road tests.

[codprawn]

Originally Posted by Phil Davies

Clearly you've never driven the new Range Rover off-road, which incidentally comfortably trounces Discoverys both on- and off-road and, in a Land Rover World test, also beat a Defender 90 on Mud Terrains (!!!!) in 7 out of the 10 off-road tests.

Firstly yes I HAVE driven the new Rangie offroad many times!!!

On rocky ground beam axles are far better as when one wheel goes up over a rock the whole vehicle does the same! With independent one wheel can travel up into the arch without the body following suit.

Yes the Rangie hammers the Disco on road but NOT off it when the Disco has traction control.

In the Land Rover World test they used a standard 90 with side steps(joke offroad) - the ONLY tests the Range Rover beat it on were where traction control gave it a big advantage.

I will guarantee if the Defender had traction control(which they now do) it would have been a totally different story - you only have to look at how many times the Rangie had a wheel in the air due to lack of axle articulation to realise that traction control is so effective - obviously traction control with all 4 wheels still in contact is better again.

Also wheelbase plays a big part - the 90 is King offroad because it is so damn short!

Did you see Clarkson with a load of modern offroaders including the Rangie getting stuck as a Land Rover series 1 on skinny tryes cruised past? Often skinny tyres will cut through deep mud to find solid ground underneath.

[Phil Davies]

Yes, I saw the Clarkson episode, which proves nothing. I've also seen a Suzuki Rhino get through mud a Defender 110 got stuck in, purely due to its lighter weight, but that doesn't mean I'd take one through the Sahara. And I've seen a 250hp John Deere stuck up to its axles in a ploughed field, which also proves nothing.

Benchmark for off-road capability of new Range Rover (L30) was the outgoing Range Rover (P38a) which had live-axles. Why then was David Sneath, chief project engineer on both L30 and P38a, able to create superior off-road performance in the new Range Rover with independent suspension? Because the air suspension of L30 differs from P38 in having cross-link valves between the gas springs, which open automatically as soon as wheel travel monitors sense the car is in an off-road situation. This allows air pressure to be diverted into the suspension on the side where a wheel has left the ground and is what endows the new Rangie with superior wheel articulation to the beam axle set-up of P38. Incidentally, rear wheel travel on L30 is 4" greater than P38, testiment to the fact that live-axles are not the be-all and end-all off-road!

New Range Rover also incorporates unique driveshafts which articulate an astonishing 55 degrees and which allow both front and rear diffs to be raised with the bodywork when the air suspension is raised to its off-road setting. This gives greater ground clearance than both P38 and Discovery where diff clearance can create problems.

Believe me, New Discovery minus beam axles WILL be better than current model both on and off-road as is new Range Rover. And if you're still not convinced, have a word with Roger Crathorne in Solihull, MD at Land Rover Experience. He'll put you right

[Jono]

Originally Posted by Phil Davies

.... Roger Crathorne in Solihull, MD at Land Rover Experience. He'll put you right

So, does John Carter have anything to do with the LR Experience still? As an amusing anecdote, I went to J.C's daughter; Kate's wedding a while back. She married (since divorced) another Land Rover manager (Who must remain nameless in the interests of my own safety!)..
Top do it was too. Car park full of all the latest and greatest LR products... and one very lonely Ford Explorer! Guess who? At least I got a mention in the after dinner speeches...

[Bern Hanreck]

What does the panel think about the Shogun 3.2 D-I-D ? I'm sorely tempted to get a newish second-hand one. ( Never owned a 4X4 before so it's over to the experts..... )

[Nick Hearne]

Originally Posted by Bern Hanreck

What does the panel think about the Shogun 3.2 D-I-D ? I'm sorely tempted to get a newish second-hand one. ( Never owned a 4X4 before so it's over to the experts..... )

Should fit in well on the school run!
Nick

[Phil Davies]

Bern,

You'll be fine with a newish second hand one, it's a very accomplished product. The widespread notion, however, that anything Japanese doesn't break is of course a misconception, and an old and abused Shogun or Landcruiser will drain your coffers like a good 'un! Parts prices are unpleasantly high, so be warned.

[Alan]

Bern,

Mitsubishi is surely a fine car but IMHO very much overpriced. Phil the Rangie man is also correct that the Jap 4x4's do cost a lot in parts and servicing when they need it. (My Trooper started getting expensive at 3 years or so.) The bald fact remains that buying jap will usually prove more reliable than Solihull's finest . That being said, Disco prices in particular are falling with the new model on way.

You don't need a monster 4x4 for La Bamba (unless you are thinking of upgrading?) so you might consider smaller 4x4's as well such as Jeep Cherokee (new shape), Grand Vitara etc. I would also look seriously at the Kia Sorento although demand probably outstrips supply on diesels so they will be pricy!

Cheers,
Alan

[Bilge Rat]

Oh the smell of testosterone !!

You boys with your big grunting toys

[Daniel TD5]

Originally Posted by Alan

Bern,

Mitsubishi is surely a fine car but IMHO very much overpriced. Phil the Rangie man is also correct that the Jap 4x4's do cost a lot in parts and servicing when they need it. (My Trooper started getting expensive at 3 years or so.) The bald fact remains that buying jap will usually prove more reliable than Solihull's finest . That being said, Disco prices in particular are falling with the new model on way.

Alan

Alan is right mitsubishi do make a very good 4x4 range i went for a l200 fourlife at work due to cost of buying new our model cost 15495 + vat
with a three year warrenty top class but the dealer are f*****G crap
worst i have ever come across and the cost of service is all so very high

get this it was being service at 4500 miles a full service about £300 and the oil change would be £150 they changed to 9000 miles which now cost £450
and then £500 still trying to work that out but its a company motor
and its free

sold my disco TD5 as that fell apart at 45000 miles but would still have any landrover tomorrow as the are the BEST OF BRITISH ANY ONE FOR TEA OLD BOY

[Phil Davies]

Originally Posted by Daniel TD5

would still have any landrover tomorrow as the are the BEST OF BRITISH ANY ONE FOR TEA OLD BOY

Absolutely old bean, mine's a Yorkshire Gold loose leaf with a smidgeon of milk - from the udder of a pedigree Friesian fed on finest Devonshire grass, of course.

[codprawn]

Originally Posted by Phil Davies

Benchmark for off-road capability of new Range Rover (L30) was the outgoing Range Rover (P38a) which had live-axles. Why then was David Sneath, chief project engineer on both L30 and P38a, able to create superior off-road performance in the new Range Rover with independent suspension? Because the air suspension of L30 differs from P38 in having cross-link valves between the gas springs, which open automatically as soon as wheel travel monitors sense the car is in an off-road situation. This allows air pressure to be diverted into the suspension on the side where a wheel has left the ground and is what endows the new Rangie with superior wheel articulation to the beam axle set-up of P38. Incidentally, rear wheel travel on L30 is 4" greater than P38, testiment to the fact that live-axles are not the be-all and end-all off-road!

The p38 has nowhere near the articulation of an earlier coil sprung vehicle without rollbars - like a Defender or classic Range Rover for example - the p38 is a poor choice as a benchmark!

As a matter of interest the original Range Rover usually wins the american RTI contests where they measure travel on a ramp - they usually beat the Yank stuff with 2.5" lifts and all the mods.

Having said all this the NEW Range Rover is one hell of an achievement - so much so I am going to treat myself when the Cayenne beater comes out - the Range Stormer

http://www.autointell.net/Events/nai...ge-stormer.htm

May have a long wait though! For now about to buy a Defender double cab TD5 modified for expedition use.

[Nasher]

God knows why I am making this thread even longer, but to add my say.

Love my Shogun to bits, Its a 3.2TD LWB with a manual box and it does everything I ask of it very well, just like my old 2.8TD.

I do a lot of motorway miles during the week and then tow my Ocean 6.25 around at the weekend, plus do the odd green lane. With the boat on the back Its good on the beach, Sand or Shingle, and on wet grass or mud, and carts me around in a suit Monday to Friday. Who could ask for more? although its worth doing a one day course to learn how to drive a 4X4 properly when you need to.

Mind you, one of the new 'Smaller' Hummers would be good.

Nasher.

[Jono]

Before anyone "buys a new 4X4 that shall remain nameless" ask your local dealer if they've taken out all the odd screws, nuts, bolts and rivets that accumulate when the dash assembly is being built...'cause they find their way into the airbag shute...ask if he saw the face of the crash test dummy when the airbag went off.... If your dealer looks suitably embarrassed, then you're looking at the same model....

[DGR]

Just to show how 'patriotic' to our brands we are...

My wife's Land Rover Discovery is the best car EVER. It's cool. It breaks speed limits. It goes up rock steps in the Lake District. It wades GOOD. Traction control means that it is as good in the mud as my mate's defender 90 (WITH muds) - (incidentaly, not the mate I nearly snuffed with a PWC - but move on). I can even fill it up with more FURNITURE than ever before!!!!!!!!! - (erm...important to Nicky, not me).

However, while it has never let us down, (and I still love it) in 14,000 miles, it's been back to the dealer 9 times, (8 times down to quality, once for a recall). Nicky's last company car, an MX-5, went back for servicing. End of.

D...

P.S. Still miss my SIII.........

P.P.S. If anyone notices that England are still playing while I type - I CAN'T COPE WITH THE STRESS...why can't we pass to feet, like every other team, including Portugal...

[Gazza]

I thought both Landrover and Rangerover where owned by BMW and therefore classed as German cars..

Also Phil, is the new Rangerover not just a modifed BMW X5 ?????

I'm only guessing.......