Electrical components for re-wire - Page 3

chrisallse · 17 February 2005, 17:33

Good Luck

Rogue Wave · 17 February 2005, 18:18

consider wiring an extra and secreted switch in the main power feed to the engine to imobilise the engine or an extra fuse and take it away with you!

arn.george · 28 February 2005, 20:34

Stage one of re-wire - waterproof box with twin 6 way blade fuse boxes, two buss bars (still to be connected to battery via 100amp fuse). GPS/ DSC connection made, still awaiting connection to nav lights, power socket and bilge pump.

If paid by the hour I would be a rich man!!

Swifty · 28 February 2005, 21:57

Looking good.
Just remember all that hard work will be worth it, and the number of swear words is proportional to the effort put in.

Tim'mers.

Simon B · 02 March 2005, 14:03

Swifty, ArnGeorge,

Buoyed up with all this enthusiastic rewire malarky I'm going to have a go this coming winter on the delta, any favourite enclosure manufacturers and suppliers? Sort of know what and where for the other parts. Was thinking of putting an IP66 enclosure behind a small hatch in the console.

Rogue Wave · 02 March 2005, 16:49

yep

http://www.aquafax.co.uk/pdfs/08a_cat.pdf

Swifty · 02 March 2005, 20:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Simon B

I'm going to have a go this coming winter on the delta, any favourite enclosure manufacturers and suppliers? Sort of know what and where for the other parts. Was thinking of putting an IP66 enclosure behind a small hatch in the console.

Sounds good. I tend to order most stuff from rapid electronics or farnell. Links below. Aquafax stuff is ok, if a bit pricey. Depends on what you want/are able to do. Maybe if you describe what you want then maybe we can point you in the right direction.

Tim'mers.

www.rapidelectronics.co.uk
www.farnell.co.uk

Simon B · 03 March 2005, 07:33

Re-wire plan;

IP66 Enclosure behind a hatch (so it is inside console)
Carling Contura series I or III switches with legends
Blade fuses fed from Bus-bars with all neutrals returned to fusebox
GPS Sonar VHF all on separate circuits
Connections made with heatshrinkable hotmelt filled crimps
Other terminations coated in liquid electrical tape or heatshrink
100 amp (or suitable size) primary positive protection fuse
Any new cabling tinned
General tidy round and secure with spiral wrap, zip ties and cobra conduit.
Circuit diagram with legend - now I'm being silly!!

Pretty much an amalgamation of all the good ideas on here, Rib International did do a rewire article but it was a while back, HMS how about a return to it?
Only probelm is how small the console is on our "classic" Delta its a right shoe horn job did think of rigging it all outside but it then prone to being damaged by cylinders etc.

Seb · 03 March 2005, 10:57

Swifty - mind if i pick your brains about your wiring diagram and installing a similar set up...?

Firstly, how does the elec start/choke/trim controls on the throttle box link in to the engine wiring on the diagram?

Should it just be the positive supply that is fused or both?

Could you please clarify your junction/fuse box diagram - positive supply in and to bus bar/each +ve terminal fused and sent to device via switch???

Negative supply in and to bus bar/each -ve terminal not fused and away to device via switch???

Could/should trip switches be used instead of fuses?

Also, if the switch panel is fused and all aux's run through this, does the main junction box/busbar setup still need fusing?

Cheers

SEB

Swifty · 03 March 2005, 19:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Simon B

Re-wire plan;

IP66 Enclosure behind a hatch (so it is inside console)
Carling Contura series I or III switches with legends
Blade fuses fed from Bus-bars with all neutrals returned to fusebox
GPS Sonar VHF all on separate circuits
Connections made with heatshrinkable hotmelt filled crimps
Other terminations coated in liquid electrical tape or heatshrink
100 amp (or suitable size) primary positive protection fuse
Any new cabling tinned
General tidy round and secure with spiral wrap, zip ties and cobra conduit.
Circuit diagram with legend - now I'm being silly!!

Pretty much an amalgamation of all the good ideas on here, Rib International did do a rewire article but it was a while back, HMS how about a return to it?
Only probelm is how small the console is on our "classic" Delta its a right shoe horn job did think of rigging it all outside but it then prone to being damaged by cylinders etc.

Okay, lets start at the top...
Carling rocker switches, how many? 1: GPS, 2: echo, 3: VHF, 4: bilge pump, 5: nav lights, 6: steaming light, 7: cigarette socket.

Once we know the number of switches we can work out how many fuses you need. An 8 way should do you.

Add on the bus bars and cable glands etc and we can work out the smallest box that will accomodate them.

A drum of 1.5mm cable (16amp), length of red and black heatshrink, box of cable numbers 0-9, spiral wrap, cable ties etc etc.

Thinking aloud, I think what I will do is list a kit of parts.

Back soon...

Swifty · 03 March 2005, 20:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seb

Swifty - mind if i pick your brains about your wiring diagram and installing a similar set up...?

Firstly, how does the elec start/choke/trim controls on the throttle box link in to the engine wiring on the diagram?

Hi, hope I can help.

Engine loom is entirely as per factory and I dont intend to get too involved there as they are all different. But generally they are self supporting, ie own fuses and connections etc. There isnt anything I can think of that needs a switched (ignition) live except a fuel gauge, and generally its strait forward there.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seb

Should it just be the positive supply that is fused or both?

As our 12v supply is on a single phase system any current flowing out the positive terminal WILL return to the negative terminal. That bit is strait forward. We must fuse one leg of the circuit, and fusing the negative could invoke earth loop problems through the engine circuit or any of the gadgets if a fault should show up. Remember the engine is only fused in the positive!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seb

Could you please clarify your junction/fuse box diagram - positive supply in and to bus bar/each +ve terminal fused and sent to device via switch???

I cannot find my diagramme now I need it!! I will clarify it for you on a seperate drawing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seb

Negative supply in and to bus bar/each -ve terminal not fused and away to device via switch???

Could/should trip switches be used instead of fuses?

Also, if the switch panel is fused and all aux's run through this, does the main junction box/busbar setup still need fusing?

Well yes. On my setup I have not put a 'global supply' fuse. Nor have I got a 100 amp fuse for the battery cables. Will look into this later on. Hopefully the drawing will clarify this for you.

As regards the debate about trips or fuses. In my opinion trips are safer than fuses.
If a fault does develope then the circuit can be very quickly reset by the push of a button. Blown fuses require a screwdriver be found, the cover to be removed, a spare to be found then inserted and the cover replaced. Not easy. Could take 3-5 minutes? maybe more in a rough sea. Also you carry a finite number of fuses on board. Trips need no spares!!

Let me know what you think.

Tim'mers.

Seb · 03 March 2005, 21:09

Thanks for going to the trouble to explain all that!

Ok, im pretty sure ive got the idea now - all seems relatively simple (says he!).

As it happens, i havent yet got the boat but when it arrives (in about a month), it will need wiring and rigging and seeing this thread prompted me to get stuck in myself and start planning which will mean that i can gaurantee it wont be botched.

I do have a few queries about you info though....

Global supply fuse means....?

To run a setup such as talked about with a VHF/GPS/Sounder/Inst lights/Bilge pump etc and of course for starting the engine, could i get bye with one battery or are two essential?

If one could suffice (as space is limited), how do you go about working out what rating battery is required?

The trip switches do seem to be a much more efficient way of making the circuits safe so ill go down this path i think - numb fingers, a rolling boat, screw drivers and small fuses dont mix!

As for your diagram (much appreciated), the +ve cable runs from the battery to the din rail which i assume is a bus bar equivalent? The power then runs to a trip and to a second fused din rail. Is this second fuse and thus whole din rail needed at all as there is already a trip? Could the cable just continue straight from the trip to the switches and device safely?

Anyway, i will leave you in peace now and when the boat arrives and i get cracking, ill let you know how i get on...

Thanks again for your advice!

Cheers

SEB

Swifty · 03 March 2005, 22:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seb

Global supply fuse means....?

Is this second fuse and thus whole din rail needed at all as there is already a trip? Could the cable just continue straight from the trip to the switches and device safely?

Hi,
After I had drawn the diagramme I did wonder if it would confuse anyone...

Global supply fuse is one connected to the battery terminal, and is to protect the battery cables from catching fire should they chafe through or become damaged. It is rated at 100 amps which is enough for the engine, accessories and some more, but would blow for a major cable short circuit. It should be located as close to the battery as possible and certainly before any connections to fuse boxes or engines.

The second fuse indicated is not actually a fuse. Dohh. I should have labelled it as "from fuse 1". It is actually just a convenient way to connect wires together. You could run the cable going to the switch, strait from the breaker, but it just makes for a neater layout.

As regards batteries, this will be down to what you want it to do. Whilst the engine is running you will be drawing current from the engine. When the engine is not running you will draw current from the battery.
How long the battery can keep this up for depends on its capacity. A 45 Amphour battery will supply 10 amps for 4.5 hours at 12 volts. A70 amphour will be able to do it for 7 hours. Realistically we Ribbers dont do long periods of engine off, so a smaller battery will work fine. BUT we do like engines to start. So a bigger battery will be able to crank for longer.
As an example my 90 was reccomended to have a 100 amphour capacity but a cheapo Halfords 45 amphour has never let me down. I did have one issue once where I had been adjusting the trim gauge before launching, went to start and it didn't have enough power left to start. Jump leads soon sorted that out. I have over the winter added a second battery because I intend to do a cross channel and some extended cruising. A battery failure could be a real pain in the arse. Remember everything ran from one battery including the VHF.

A good friend of mine has a 7.5m cobra with a 150 opti. He replaced both batteries after a service and was out wave jumping, when he landed pretty hard. He lost total electrical power. Turned out to be the new battery had failed. To remedy the situation he switched to battery 2, started up and drove home.

So to sumarise your question, one battery is ok and will work fine. Two batteries gives you more power, a second reserve in case of a fault, the ability to start the engine even if 1 battery is flat. The down side is it leaves the boat with less storage and extra weight. You don't get benefits for nothing!!

Anyway i've waffled on for long enough. Hope this sheds some light on the matter.

Tim'mers.

Simon B · 04 March 2005, 08:47

This is nothing short of miraculous! Be careful swifty you could end being a service provider! Will await parts list and keep looking at console layouts. I had seen an aluminium die-cast box that looked the part any disadvantages of using this compared to ABS or poly carb?

Cheers for all so far!

Swifty · 04 March 2005, 08:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Simon B

This is nothing short of miraculous! Be careful swifty you could end being a service provider! Will await parts list and keep looking at console layouts. I had seen an aluminium die-cast box that looked the part any disadvantages of using this compared to ABS or poly carb?

Cheers for all so far!

Yeah they rot...
Plastic is fantastic

Tim.
PS have got a mercy mission today so will sort the list out tonight.

Seb · 05 March 2005, 08:55

Brilliant

I pretty much understand it all now so 'should' be able to get cracking as soon as the boat arrives knowing that everything will be installed properly and will be reliable, safe and efficient.

Will be in touch if i hit any snags id thats ok...?

Thanks again.

SEB

IanE · 05 March 2005, 10:22

I have two batteries, and was wondering what to do with them over the winter. A friend of mine who is involved with camper vans suggested I use a "battery conditioner", so I got one of these !!

Airflow

I just rigged it up to plug into a cigarette lighter socket.

jwalker · 05 March 2005, 13:01

You can get a similar charger from Machine Mart. 4 amp automatic charger and it's a tenner cheaper.

Anyone ever had anything to do with the gadgets which claim to extend battery life up to 15 years by breaking down the crystalline structure within the battery plates? Compass flog 'em for about 50 cwid.

arn.george · 21 March 2005, 12:33

Looking for material for a conduit from the consol to the the stern - flexible and preferably waterproof - any ideas - looking at 50mm agricultural spray hose.

Scary Des · 21 March 2005, 13:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by arn.george

Looking for material for a conduit from the consol to the the stern - flexible and preferably waterproof - any ideas - looking at 50mm agricultural spray hose.

The green spiral wound stuff is good but will go hard with time, nice thing is you can get 50mm fittings to finish it off well

Des