DSC position Request

LURCHER · 28 July 2008, 11:44

I have an ICOM 505 DSC Set coupled to a Garmin 3010 Plotter .
I have tried a Position request with a mate and we have both got the others position in Lat/Lon in figures but have been unable to get the position showing on the Plotter . Any idea what we are doing wrong?

Daniel · 28 July 2008, 12:24

latest software on the Garmin?

plus, its obvious, but is it wired in!!

LURCHER · 28 July 2008, 17:17

Yes wired in Ok as Position shown on ICOM , it is not plotting it on the chart .

Erin · 28 July 2008, 18:11

Just because the position is showing on the radio doesn't guarantee it's wired correctly. All that means is that you've got the gps output wired to the radio input. You need to check radio out is wired to gps input and also check the gps communication port is 'on' and set to nmea0183.

Top banana · 28 July 2008, 21:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by LURCHER

Yes wired in Ok as Position shown on ICOM , it is not plotting it on the chart .

Ive got the same problem, icom m505 and garmin 4212, have position input on radio, allso when i do a position request i recieve the other boats position,
but does not show on plotter screen. I have checked all connections,have the latest software version.and ports are switched on, the plotter is the plug and play network type

looks lik a call to garmin, one other thought i had was
if the screen needed to be zoomed in more but havent been out latelly to try it.?

geoffs · 28 July 2008, 22:27

Make sure that the port you are using has NMEA in/out selected on the Comm tab, it defaults to Garmin. Then the DSC function needs to be enabled on the plotter on the DSC tab, default is off. You should then see the data appear on the DSC tab in the form of log entries, these can then be converted to waypoints on the screen.

If it is still no go then you will need to monitor the data coming out of the radio to check it is not corrupted etc.

Erin · 29 July 2008, 08:10

I've just remembered.... there's a setting on the Icom that needs changing to make sure it outputs the position data. You will need to check this. I think you press the menu button and then choose set-up and it's listed there somewhere.

martini · 01 February 2009, 16:00

Lurcher and Top Banana,

Did you manage to sort these faults out?

I've got Icom M505 and Garmin 5012, doing exactly the same.

Position info is displayed on the vhf but no "other boat" info displayed on the chartplotters map or in the DSC list.

Help anyone?? Been right through the manuals for both units, everything is set up and switched on. I haven't checked the wiring as it's all heat shrunk multiple times etc, if I got it wrong it would be the only mistake I made wiring the whole boat so I'm fairly confident!

geoffs · 01 February 2009, 17:17

On the back of your 505 there will be a number of leads, one of which will have a red conductor, this is the NMEA in and as you are getting position on the radio must be connected OK.

One of the others is the NMEA out lead and has a white conductor, this is the one which needs to be connected to the 5012. The 5012 has four NMEA0183 in ports, some of which you may already have in use, so of the pairs orange/orange-white (port1) or brown/brown-white (port2) or violet/violet-white (port3) or black-white/red-white (port4) you will need to connect the inner white wire of the 505 to the first colour, i.e. orange and the outer screen of the 505 to the other wire, i.e. the orange-white wire. This will create the circuit you need. Then in the 5012 menu go to Configure/communications then select the port you ahve wired in to and select the port type as NMEA std. Then go to configure/other boats and turn DSC on. Now for the radio, press menu then select setup and enter, then select NMEA output and then select "All station" press enter to select and the clr to exit. The 5012 should now be able to see all DSC calls, so now you need to get someone to call you to check, you need to go to Information/other boats on the 5012 to view the data.

It does work as I have installed and had it working with 3000/4000/5000 series Garmin units.

martini · 01 February 2009, 17:47

Thanks for taking the time to reply Geoff,

But I think you may have made a small error, (with the utmost respect!)

I have the TX (white) cable on the vhf connected to RX port 1 on the gps (white-white/orange). ps not orange-orange/white as you say, prob just a typo I guess.

Where I differ from what you said is that I have the inner (+) wire on the VHF connected to white wire on the GPS, designated as "A".

As I understand, "A" is the same as "+" and the + from a tx port should connect to the + on a rx port.

I used the same method for the vhf rx port which works so I think I've got it right?!!

geoffs · 01 February 2009, 21:33

oops, yes typo, should read white/orange-white for port 1

Have you tried looking at the data coming out of the radio with a laptop??

The 5000 series units have an engineering mode where NMEA can be shown on screen, but cannot remember how you get to it, will ask Garmin and let you know.

martini · 01 February 2009, 22:39

Way beyond my level of expertise! Thanks for looking into it for me though.

jwalker · 01 February 2009, 23:05

Just a thought, we had this conversation before.

The dual colour, ie. orange/white etc, has to be connected to ground for the 5012 to operate in the mode you require. Be sure the screen of the 505 is a good ground connection.

Presuming you're using port 1; what you should actually have is the data out from the 505 connected to the white of the 5012 and the black data ground of your 5012 connected to the screen of the 505. This is your data path. Then the dual colour wire for that port (orange/white) is connected to ground to switch the 5012 into the mode you require. (Unbalanced connection.) If the orange/white wire is not connected to ground, the 5012 port will function in the balanced mode.

For the 5012, data ground and real ground (battery negative) need to be connected together. This will also have the effect of ensuring the 505 screen is a good ground.

Daniel · 03 February 2009, 14:49

my plotter turned out not to support it (Garmin 168, same as a 162) if wired correctly your 5012 should work, however.

thats my short, i hope helpful reply.

martini · 03 February 2009, 16:34

Thanks JW

I might have the boat in the workshop over the weekend and look a bit further into it. In the meantime I need to find a spare hour or 3 to try and digest all this technical info, it's starting to make my brain hurt!

Erin · 21 February 2011, 09:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by jwalker

Presuming you're using port 1; what you should actually have is the data out from the 505 connected to the white of the 5012 and the black data ground of your 5012 connected to the screen of the 505. This is your data path. Then the dual colour wire for that port (orange/white) is connected to ground to switch the 5012 into the mode you require. (Unbalanced connection.) If the orange/white wire is not connected to ground, the 5012 port will function in the balanced mode.

Just in case anyone drags this up in the future, I have just spoken to Icom and they have advised me that their NMEA ports are 'balanced'. As such, when conencting to modern Garmin with balanced ports, you should not 'ground' any of the wires. Simply connect TX+(A) on VHF to RX+(A) on GPS and TX-(B) to RX-(B) respectively and all should work. Older Garmins are unbalanced and there is no TX- or RX- as such, but instead the ground wire acts as the 'minus' connection. Garmin refer to this older version as 'single ended' devices.

If Icom are correct in what they tell me then JW's wiring method should not be followed.

Having had to understand all this, which took some time, here is a brief explanation.

Balanced (NMEA v2 and up) means that neither wire is technically a ground wire, but the units sense a voltage difference between the pair of wires. If properly manufactured then the ports are opto-isolated from the rest of the electronics, so actually connecting one to ground by accident wouldn't cause any damage. This type is also known as differential NMEA.

Unbalanced (older method mainly NMEA v1) uses one lead as the signal wire TX+ or RX+ and the other is a ground, though confusingly sometimes referred to as TX- or RX-. In this case it is fine to connect the minus wire to ground. This is known as single ended sometimes.

Important thing to remember is that a TX-(B) should never be conencted to ground on a listener. If you see A's and B's in brackets it means you are dealing with differential or balanced NEMA.

All clear? Yeah thought so!

And finally, any AIS NMEA is balanced as it uses 38k baud rate which is only available in recent NEMA versions.

martini · 21 February 2011, 10:22

I think I might just get you round to rewire my vhf since you know all about it, I still haven't got mine to talk properly

Of course it would only be a 30 second job if Icom got their act together and started using N2K

11 years late is still better than never

Erin · 21 February 2011, 11:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by martini

I think I might just get you round to rewire my vhf since you know all about it

You might want to wait 'til I power mine up. If you see smoke in the east, you may want to reconsider requesting my help

Channel Ribs · 21 February 2011, 13:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Erin

You might want to wait 'til I power mine up. If you see smoke in the east, you may want to reconsider requesting my help

How about a dummy run on Tuesday evening? We can wire up a supply to a couple of grams of explosive just to make it interesting*.

Have you wrestled your new plotter away from Martini yet?

Edit: * I am thinking the old board game "Operation" but with a nice marine/IED twist.

Erin · 21 February 2011, 14:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Channel Ribs

Have you wrestled your new plotter away from Martini yet?

Yes, and nearly had a hernia at the same time. Heavy old lump isn't it. All nicely mounted now and wiring in progress. Glad I fitted a light inside the console - meant I could work late into the night yesterday. Had to rearrange the dashboard to fit everything on, but looks fairly neat IMHO. Photos may follow!