Tohatsu 9.8 2-stroke engine.

lightning · 29 July 2012, 16:36

I bought a new one of these some time ago from a dealer in the Channel Islands.

At the time there was some discussion as to whether it was strictly legal to purchase one of these engines new in this way, for use in the UK.

The dealer (a registered Tohatsu dealer) insisted it was all above board, but opinions were varied on here.
Speaking to a Tohatsu dealer in the UK recently, at first he said it was "illegal" for them to sell these engines to the UK. But then I asked why they had not been brought to book for it?

so he said "it's because they are in the Channel Islands"

So does that mean it's legal, or is it not legal for them to supply somebody in the UK with a Tohatsu 9.8 2 stroke engine?

samt · 29 July 2012, 16:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by lightning

I bought a new one of these some time ago from a dealer in the Channel Islands.

At the time there was some discussion as to whether it was strictly legal to purchase one of these engines new in this way, for use in the UK.

The dealer (a registered Tohatsu dealer) insisted it was all above board, but opinions were varied on here.
Speaking to a Tohatsu dealer in the UK recently, at first he said it was "illegal" for them to sell these engines to the UK. But then I asked why they had not been brought to book for it?

so he said "it's because they are in the Channel Islands"

So does that mean it's legal, or is it not legal for them to supply somebody in the UK with a Tohatsu 9.8 2 stroke engine?

If it was newly imported to the UK then it can only be sold legally to a commercial or rescue operator. If the dealer had it in stock since before the ban was introduced (2006?) then that was fine.

Aparantly a few people have bought them commercially and then sold them on to leisure users 'secondhand'. But the price on a brand new two strokes is now very high compared to four strokes.

willk · 29 July 2012, 19:24

But surely the dealer didn't import it?

Lightning did!

Boats&Outboards · 29 July 2012, 19:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by samt

If it was newly imported to the UK then it can only be sold legally to a commercial or rescue operator. If the dealer had it in stock since before the ban was introduced (2006?) then that was fine.

Aparantly a few people have bought them commercially and then sold them on to leisure users 'secondhand'. But the price on a brand new two strokes is now very high compared to four strokes.

If you buy it new on a commercial basis (after 2006) you can only legally sell it to another commercial operator used, be it one month or one year later! As the commercial operator (seller) you are responsible to ensure the used next buyer is indeed commercial.

That's how I've read the rules,

The interesting point in the OP thread would be how was it sent over to you ? Was it disclosed as being a new 2 stroke outboard and was VAT paid on it ? It would be you who had broke the law as you imported it, which is illegal, unless your commercially registered. The seller would just argue he sold it subject to his own governing laws, of which he hasn't broken

Peter @ Boatsandoutboards4sale ~ askboatsandoutboards4sale@sky.com ~ 07930 421007

SIBer · 29 July 2012, 19:34

I looked at this last year and got a quote from the same supplier. A minty used 2hotsue turned up so I bought it.

It is perfectly legal to sell a 2 smoke outside the EU. Channel islands are outside the EU. So like I said legal to sell.

So L bought a 2 smoke outside the EU - seems legal to me.

Bringing a used 2 smoke into the EU is legal. If L wanted to sell said 2 smoke then that would be illegal unless for commercial or racing use.

Another dealer quoted for a new 2 smoke as long as I raced other boats...

lightning · 29 July 2012, 20:26

That is how it was explained to me at the time.

Legal to buy the engine, but l can't sell it on unless the buyer is a commercial operator.

Boats&Outboards · 29 July 2012, 20:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by lightning

That is how it was explained to me at the time.

Legal to buy the engine, but l can't sell it on unless the buyer is a commercial operator.

Not unless you bought it under a commercial licence as it wasn't a used 2 stroke you brought in, it was a new one

Peter @ Boatsandoutboards4sale ~ askboatsandoutboards4sale@sky.com ~ 07930 421007

lightning · 29 July 2012, 22:32

That's the thing.

Some are saying it's legal, some are not!

When I wanted a more powerful engine for my SIB everybody recommended this engine as being the one to go for. Then the same discussion happened at the time, after I had bought the engine.

I wonder how many of these engines they sell to the UK.

Leapy · 30 July 2012, 07:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by lightning

That's the thing.
Some are saying it's legal, some are not!

That's because nobody knows for sure, perhaps, although Peter's arguement seems logical but I suspect it's not one you want to hear. You could always trundle off to the local customs/trading standards/whatever and ask them. But if you feel you might not like the answer...

In any case, last time I looked, the 2 stroke police were thin on the ground so enjoy

unless, of course, you've ever upset WilLfish and there's risk he'll dob you :-)

willk · 30 July 2012, 07:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leapy

unless, of course, you've ever upset WilLfish and there's risk he'll rob you :-)

Fixed that for you Leapy

Erin · 30 July 2012, 07:26

I don't know the definitive answer to this, but I suspect it was perfectly legal to purchase the 2 stroke in the CI's as they are not EU or UK (just British Isles). However if you are a resident of the EU and then take it home with you I would think it is akin to importing it and then falls under the law. If you were a CI resident and were relocating to the UK with it then I doubt there is much they could do.

Leapy · 30 July 2012, 07:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by willk

Fixed that for you Leapy

Oh yeah, cheers. Slip of the thumb

lightning · 30 July 2012, 11:38

Yes I get the picture....I think!

SIBer · 31 July 2012, 19:39

As grey as Scar Fell in the rain.

I read the all EU laws that I could find on the net last year. It was all about selling in the EU, i.e. not legal for sale with in the UK (unless commercial or racing as discussed).

So nothing wrong with selling outside the EU.

I emailed (so I had it in writing) customs at the port where said motor would arrive at. The response was; phone us and pay the duty and the motor would be released for collection by my courier.
So as long as the duties were paid customs had no problem with the "import". As said, the EU law only applies to the sale, nothing about import or use in the EU that I could find.

lightning · 01 August 2012, 07:41

So it's unlikely to get the end buyer into trouble by the sound of it.

When I bought my engine the dealer dealt with the importing and I had to pay their recommended courier about £60 to ship it from the port to my house.
I can't remember if I paid the duty separately, or if they put it on my bill.

But as I said they insisted that it was all fully legal and there were no risks at all.
It does appear a grey area though!

Searider · 01 August 2012, 11:35

The emissions regulations that effectively outlaw these two strokes are part of the RCD.

The RCD applies to vessels first put onto the market or into use within the EU after 16 June 1998.

I suspect therefore that it also applies to engines being imported for use.

Probably adding to the greyness!

Customs not responsible for enforcing the RCD so I guess they are only responsible for duty and vat.

Trading standards responsible for enforcing RCD - and not much enforcing going on unless there are incidents or complaints.