Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
 
Old 02 March 2021, 20:52   #1
Member
 
Country: UK - England
Boat name: Jetset
Make: Demon Ribs
Length: 6m +
Engine: Mercury 225 Opti
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 87
To flush or not to flush...

Gearing up for the new season and had some potential bad news today that my usual storage and self launch facility may not be available this year. I base my rib out of Dartmouth and there aren’t any other (viable) options for me, so now I’m seriously considering a permanent mooring on the river and purchasing a versadock (type) floating dock for my rib.

I’m usually meticulous with cleaning down my boat and flushing the engine - a 225 Mercury 2 stroke optimax.

So my question - if i end up leaving the rib on a floating dock throughout the season, will it be a write off if I don’t flush it?

I should also say, the mooring I’ve been offered is mid river, so no access to fresh water.
__________________
Bjohnson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03 March 2021, 00:09   #2
Member
 
Country: Australia
Town: Beckenham
Boat name: No Name
Make: Highfield
Length: 3m +
Engine: Outboard Suzuki 30HP
Join Date: Mar 2019
Posts: 207
Good question and I am going to have a go at guessing the correct answer.

I'm sure I will be advised if I'm talking rubbish. (Since I normally do)

There are plenty of boats moored in salt water so it can't be a all that important.

When you bring your boat home on a trailer, the water drains out of it and is replaced by air, an element required for oxidisation. So, you flush it with fresh water.

If the outboard is left in the water, the air can't get in hence, oxidisation won't be a problem.

Galvanic action will be, but the anodes attached to the motor should reduce this problem, of course keeping your eye on the anodes is important.

How good is my guess?
__________________
Salty Pete is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03 March 2021, 01:24   #3
Member
 
Country: Australia
Town: Dalmeny
Make: zodiac
Length: 5m +
Engine: outboard
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 1,200
Many commercial outboards are never flushed but the fact they are run daily helps reduce the effects of salt drying and building up in the engines.

I recently bought an outboard (Suzuki 140 ) with jut 235 hrs which was chocker block with salt. The anodes had been changed twice in those 235 hrs yet they were totally gone when I bought the engine. No water pumped as the cooling system was totally blocked, as was the thermostat. This engine had been flushed using the flush ports but not using the muffs for a full cooling system flush (something many don't realise doesn't totally flush the engine fully).
__________________
jonp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03 March 2021, 05:37   #4
Member
 
Country: Australia
Town: Beckenham
Boat name: No Name
Make: Highfield
Length: 3m +
Engine: Outboard Suzuki 30HP
Join Date: Mar 2019
Posts: 207
Quote:
Originally Posted by jonp View Post
Many commercial outboards are never flushed but the fact they are run daily helps reduce the effects of salt drying and building up in the engines.

I recently bought an outboard (Suzuki 140 ) with jut 235 hrs which was chocker block with salt. The anodes had been changed twice in those 235 hrs yet they were totally gone when I bought the engine. No water pumped as the cooling system was totally blocked, as was the thermostat. This engine had been flushed using the flush ports but not using the muffs for a full cooling system flush (something many don't realise doesn't totally flush the engine fully).
Interesting jonp, when I bought my engine new, the dealer told me the preferred way to flush the engine was via the flush plug and not muffs.

However 2 years after I had bought the engine I read the manual (the standard time to read the manual after purchase) and it recommended flushing the engine with muffs.

I guess I need to change.
__________________
Salty Pete is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03 March 2021, 07:51   #5
Member
 
Country: UK - England
Town: N. Devon
Boat name: (Not Another) Nutkin
Make: Highfield
Length: 6m +
Engine: Outboard, Honda 135
MMSI: 232036183
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,015
RIBase
5l hozelock pump container, fill with fresh water and push in via the flush points, not as good as a muff wash, but better then nothing?
__________________
Andy

Bude Dive Club - www.budediveclub.co.uk
GAFIRS - www.gafirs.org.uk
treerat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03 March 2021, 08:24   #6
Member
 
lakelandterrier's Avatar
 
Country: UK - England
Town: Gloucester
Boat name: Lunasea
Make: Ribcraft
Length: 5m +
Engine: Suzi 140
MMSI: 232005050
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,976
How well will a drive on dock work on swinging mooring? - most I know of are moored to a pontoon to hold them straight when driving on.

Also most moorings in the Dart are now trots - not swinging - which wouldn't work for a drive on dock at all.

There's a long waiting list for river moorings.

You'll also need a tender of some kind the reach the mooring, and find somewhere to keep it. Parking in Dartmouth / Kingswear is also a nightmare as I'm sure you know.

Have you considered Dartside at Galmpton? - but you'll be limited to +/- c.2.5-3 hours HW.

Alternatively consider putting the dock on a marina berth - will have fresh water. It won't be cheap, but will give you quick & easy access from shore to water and not be tide dependent.
__________________
Member of the Macmillan Round the Isle of Wight Club
lakelandterrier is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03 March 2021, 09:32   #7
Member
 
Fender's Avatar
 
Country: UK - England
Make: Zodiac
Length: under 3m
Engine: Scull
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 528
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bjohnson View Post
Gearing up for the new season and had some potential bad news today that my usual storage and self launch facility may not be available this year. I base my rib out of Dartmouth and there aren’t any other (viable) options for me, so now I’m seriously considering a permanent mooring on the river and purchasing a versadock (type) floating dock for my rib.

I’m usually meticulous with cleaning down my boat and flushing the engine - a 225 Mercury 2 stroke optimax.

So my question - if i end up leaving the rib on a floating dock throughout the season, will it be a write off if I don’t flush it?

I should also say, the mooring I’ve been offered is mid river, so no access to fresh water.
Unless the floaty dock is fixed to a pontoon its an't going to work
__________________
Fender is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03 March 2021, 10:17   #8
RIBnet supporter
 
Country: UK - England
Town: Brixham
Boat name: Jazz
Make: XS
Length: 6m +
Engine: Suzuki
Join Date: Aug 2018
Posts: 195
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fender View Post
Unless the floaty dock is fixed to a pontoon its an't going to work

It is possible to use one on a mooring, but not without some issues. It would need two mooring points to stop it moving to much when trying to get back on.

Tetradock have a photo of one of there's on a Trot mooring at Fowey. But you would need to have an end mooring for it to work with any degree of ease.

I use one with a reasonably heavy rib and find that if I drive on just a bit too far then I sometimes have to give it a bit of a push backwards before I can reverse off without reving the engine too much. That's not much of an issue when you've got a pontoon to brace against but might prove difficult mid river.

I also need an air bag/block to get the stern clear of the water at rest and then lower it to make getting off easier. Getting access to the air hose is again easy from a pontoon, not so much of you had to reach from the boat.
__________________
36valley is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03 March 2021, 10:52   #9
Member
 
Fender's Avatar
 
Country: UK - England
Make: Zodiac
Length: under 3m
Engine: Scull
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 528
Quote:
Originally Posted by 36valley View Post
It is possible to use one on a mooring, but not without some issues. It would need two mooring points to stop it moving to much when trying to get back on.

What about the rest of the river moorings swinging with the stream and wind?


Tetradock have a photo of one of there's on a Trot mooring at Fowey. But you would need to have an end mooring for it to work with any degree of ease.
Also with the slack in the mooring to compensate for tide height changes you'll just keep pushing the dock away from the bow of the rib then the dock will twist under the load and screw the attempt up??

I use one with a reasonably heavy rib and find that if I drive on just a bit too far then I sometimes have to give it a bit of a push backwards before I can reverse off without reving the engine too much. That's not much of an issue when you've got a pontoon to brace against but might prove difficult mid river.
Yes!

I also need an air bag/block to get the stern clear of the water at rest and then lower it to make getting off easier. Getting access to the air hose is again easy from a pontoon, not so much of you had to reach from the boat.
Love to see someone try to mount a boat on a moving floaty dock - be quiet entertaining
__________________
Fender is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03 March 2021, 11:32   #10
Member
 
Country: UK - England
Town: Retford
Boat name: Spy-sea-one
Make: Excel 435
Length: 4m +
Engine: Suzuki Outboard/25/4
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 7,441
RIBase
you can buy a flush bag lift engine fit bag lower fill with fresh water run job done
__________________
jeffstevens763@g is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03 March 2021, 11:37   #11
RIBnet supporter
 
Country: UK - England
Town: Brixham
Boat name: Jazz
Make: XS
Length: 6m +
Engine: Suzuki
Join Date: Aug 2018
Posts: 195
As I said "not without some issues" .
__________________
36valley is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03 March 2021, 13:40   #12
Member
 
Country: UK - England
Boat name: Jetset
Make: Demon Ribs
Length: 6m +
Engine: Mercury 225 Opti
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 87
Thanks for the replies.

I spoke with a friend who has twin 225 Optis on a bigger cabin cruiser that’s left afloat through the summer, he’s jury rigged a hose system off his transom shower and flushes from his onboard freshwater tanks after each use - no good for my rib!

Spoke with another contact who used to keep their fishing boat on a floating dock mid river, they jury rigged a large plastic freshwater tank on the pontoon/dock and used a 12V battery to pump fresh water from the tank to flush the outboard.

I also spoke with a Mercury service place and they said it might not be a massive issue not to flush (through the summer) given the waterways on a 3l V6 are pretty big (his point being compared to a small outboard engine with small waterways which may fur up more quickly if not regularly flushed). Not sure I’m entirely happy with that approach.

Another option could be to buy a flushing bag, hook it over the outboard, fill with fresh water (from a portable jerry can/container left on the pontoon), to flush. I can see this might work but probably needs testing to prove the concept!

I’m still awaiting confirmation of mooring availability, so this may all yet be a moot point!

Also to clarify the above exchanges, my option is a mid river pontoon, against which i can moor a floating dock, so hopefully no chance of the dock running away as we try to mount it!!!
__________________
Bjohnson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03 March 2021, 14:58   #13
RIBnet admin team
 
Poly's Avatar
 
Country: UK - Scotland
Boat name: imposter
Make: FunYak
Length: 3m +
Engine: Tohatsu 30HP
MMSI: 235089819
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 11,622
Quote:
Originally Posted by Salty Pete View Post
Good question and I am going to have a go at guessing the correct answer.

I'm sure I will be advised if I'm talking rubbish. (Since I normally do)

There are plenty of boats moored in salt water so it can't be a all that important.

When you bring your boat home on a trailer, the water drains out of it and is replaced by air, an element required for oxidisation. So, you flush it with fresh water.

If the outboard is left in the water, the air can't get in hence, oxidisation won't be a problem.

Galvanic action will be, but the anodes attached to the motor should reduce this problem, of course keeping your eye on the anodes is important.

How good is my guess?
I think you are close - oxidation isn't really the problem - its the water evaporating and leaving the solid salt behind. If you leave it in the water with the leg down it will be hard to dry out like that. As JonP says regular use will help a lot too. If you were going to put it on a dock with engine leg up and leave if 3 weeks between use regularly I think you might gradually build up salt. I doubt it needs flushed every time though to get rid of the salt.
__________________
Poly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03 March 2021, 15:05   #14
Member
 
Country: UK - England
Town: Swanage
Make: Halmatic Arctic 22
Length: 6m +
Join Date: Apr 2020
Posts: 48
I'll be keeping my Arctic on a swing mooring this year so following with interest as I've only ever trailered a boat before. Am I to understand that if you couldn't flush fairly regularly you'd leave the leg down to stop the water jacket drying out and therefore salt build up? I'd imagined that the water would drain down out of the water jacket to roughly the surface level, still leaving the opportunity for salt to gradually build up in the water channels above surface level?
__________________
Fergus3060 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03 March 2021, 15:10   #15
Member
 
Country: UK - Scotland
Make: HumberOceanOffshore
Length: 8m +
Engine: Volvo KAD300/DPX
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 5,596
Quote:
Originally Posted by Poly View Post
....I doubt it needs flushed every time though to get rid of the salt.
Aye, I think it does. It's weird since salt is generally water soluble but outboad water channels clog up markedly with what appears to be insoluble salt. Perhaps it's soduimalumochloride or summat....I dunno but it's tricky to get rid of for sure.

Since salt is hygroscopic, if an outboard isn't flushed and lies above water where, by definition, humidity is high then I reckon the inside of a outboard will pretty much lie wet all the time.
__________________
JW.
jwalker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03 March 2021, 15:32   #16
Member
 
Country: UK - England
Town: Barnstaple
Length: 7m +
Join Date: Mar 2020
Posts: 390
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fender View Post
Love to see someone try to mount a boat on a moving floaty dock - be quiet entertaining
I reckon I could do it with the perfect amount of speed on approach.

Not so fast that you fly straight over the top of the dock and off the other side.

But not so slow that the dock moves away rather than the boat jumping onto it.

About 12 knots should do it imo
__________________
jakew009 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03 March 2021, 16:52   #17
Member
 
Country: Ireland
Town: Ennis
Boat name: pac 22
Make: Halmatic
Length: 6m +
Engine: inboard
Join Date: Aug 2018
Posts: 206
flushing

there are a lot of variables here, engine quality ie the actual grade of aluminium alloy the outboard\leg is made from. I have seen new honda outboards to dissolve in a season from the inside out. My personal experience is launching and mooring every year for the past fifteen years in may and taking out in october weather permitting. I flush when I get it home.its a yamaha v4 .engine is raised between use on the mooring .People could have different experiences with different water compositions ,Brackish estuaries can cause more problems
__________________
mikehhogg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03 March 2021, 16:54   #18
Member
 
Country: UK - England
Town: Hamble
Length: no boat
Engine: Bigger the Better!
Join Date: Feb 2021
Posts: 53
Versadock or tetradock floating dock on a swinging mooring - DON'T. There'll be an accident.

I do agree with Mr Treerat for flushing! You need a good flushing

MGx
__________________
Miss Guided is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03 March 2021, 19:09   #19
RIBnet Supporter
 
willk's Avatar
 
Country: Ireland
Length: 4m +
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 14,664
Quote:
Originally Posted by jakew009 View Post
I reckon I could do it with the perfect amount of speed on approach.

Not so fast that you fly straight over the top of the dock and off the other side.

But not so slow that the dock moves away rather than the boat jumping onto it.

About 12 knots should do it imo
...the first floating dock with an arrestor wire?
__________________
I'm sorry, but there IS no Mars Bar.
willk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03 March 2021, 23:10   #20
RIBnet admin team
 
Poly's Avatar
 
Country: UK - Scotland
Boat name: imposter
Make: FunYak
Length: 3m +
Engine: Tohatsu 30HP
MMSI: 235089819
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 11,622
Quote:
Originally Posted by jwalker View Post
Aye, I think it does. It's weird since salt is generally water soluble but outboad water channels clog up markedly with what appears to be insoluble salt. Perhaps it's soduimalumochloride or summat....I dunno but it's tricky to get rid of for sure.
People report success flushing with weak acids - so its presumably calcium carbonate (scale like in English kettles and washing machines). That makes sense as the deposits are mostly in hot bits and CaCO3 has inverse solubility with temp (ie. it dissolves better, although still poorly, in cold water). It should get worse with use rather just a poor flushing regime then. The question is does keeping a boat afloat used at least once a week, and flushing once a month; using it every day and flushing at end of the season (perhaps with some proprietary treatment); or using it every few weeks and flushing it every night when you get home make a meaningful difference?
__________________
Poly is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off




All times are GMT. The time now is 04:35.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.