Tilt/Trim Relay constantly failing

Adz1984 · 09 October 2017, 07:42

Good Morning All,

Having an odd issue with the down tilt relay, it failed last weekend and would just click when pressing down on the throttle switch or the switch on the outboard but moving up worked fine. I promptly went out and bought a replacement and fitted this on Friday night and all was working well. Jump to Saturday afternoon and we are preparing the launch and fortunately before we got the boat in the water i tested the switch only to find that again we couldn't tilt down. I swapped the relays over and as expected down started working and up stopped. No my question is, was I just unlucky and got a bad relay (Was brand new for a supplier I have used before) or is there something else wrong that't causing the relay to fail?? The engine is a 1997 Mariner 90hp.

Any assistance is greatly welcome!

Chris Caton · 09 October 2017, 08:54

sounds more like a bad connection in the wiring loom, try pulling the connectors apart and check for corrosion

jeffstevens763@g · 09 October 2017, 10:34

certainly could have been unlucky with the relay

Dirk Diggler · 09 October 2017, 15:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adz1984

(Was brand new for a supplier I have used before)

Genuine or pattern part?? I've only had problems when the customer has gone "cheap"...

Adz1984 · 09 October 2017, 15:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Caton

sounds more like a bad connection in the wiring loom, try pulling the connectors apart and check for corrosion

Thanks Chris, will have a look when I get home tonight, did have a quick check at the weekend but didn't pull the connectors apart.

Adz1984 · 09 October 2017, 15:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dirk Diggler

Genuine or pattern part?? I've only had problems when the customer has gone "cheap"...

It was a genuine part, but maybe I'm just unlucky! Ordered a couple this time from another supplier, so fingers crossed

Dirk Diggler · 09 October 2017, 15:18

that's unusal, Quicksilver relays are normally pretty good.

Adz1984 · 09 October 2017, 15:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dirk Diggler

that's unusal, Quicksilver relays are normally pretty good.

That's what I had heard, which making wonder if there was something else causing it to fail. I'll go over everything tonight before I got the replacement relay and if I can't find anything I'll just hope it was a dodgy relay

Chris Caton · 09 October 2017, 16:05

is it a standard auto relay layout for the pins, might be a cheaper way of fault finding rather than buying genuine relays until you know what the problem is? might be worth checking the earth connections as well, the relay coil won't pull in if its not getting an earth

Bobg · 09 October 2017, 16:54

If swapping the relays caused the fault to switch from the Up to Down tilt (or vice versa) then it is the relay which is at fault. (Otherwise it is the wiring/switch)
Look at the markings on the good relay. It should say 12V xxADC somewhere, where xx is about 30 or more. The new relay should have the same value or greater.
These relays are generic with Automotive relays which can have different maximum current ratings for the internal switch contact(s). They all look the same with the same pin arrangement. If the new one has a lower rating then it will work a couple of times then fail or become dodgy.
Also the relays need to be of a Sealed type to prevent moisture getting into the relay and causing the contacts to burn out. The cheaper Automotive relays are not sealed.
RS Components or Rapid Electronics stock a wide range of all types of relays.
PM me with a photo of the (good) relay markings if you need further help.

Adz1984 · 10 October 2017, 06:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bobg

If swapping the relays caused the fault to switch from the Up to Down tilt (or vice versa) then it is the relay which is at fault. (Otherwise it is the wiring/switch)
Look at the markings on the good relay. It should say 12V xxADC somewhere, where xx is about 30 or more. The new relay should have the same value or greater.
These relays are generic with Automotive relays which can have different maximum current ratings for the internal switch contact(s). They all look the same with the same pin arrangement. If the new one has a lower rating then it will work a couple of times then fail or become dodgy.
Also the relays need to be of a Sealed type to prevent moisture getting into the relay and causing the contacts to burn out. The cheaper Automotive relays are not sealed.
RS Components or Rapid Electronics stock a wide range of all types of relays.
PM me with a photo of the (good) relay markings if you need further help.

Thanks buddy, had a good look around at all the electrics and not corrosion or loose connections, and swapping up for down relays does indeed move the fault! Will check the rating on the known good relays and ensure the replacement is in line with it.

Thanks for all the help

spartacus · 10 October 2017, 12:39

Wiring issues will throw up faults like this. Most outboard looms are not tinned, so corrosion can be anywhere along the length of the wiring including undeck trunking. A continuity test with a multimeter should be on your list.

Adz1984 · 11 October 2017, 07:04

I have ordered a multi-meter so I can do that. But I would have thought that if there was an issue with the loom/wiring causing the relay to fail then when I swap the down relay for the known good up relay it would also fail, but this doesn't happen...hopefully the meter turns up before the weekend!

Adz1984 · 11 October 2017, 07:30

Bobg I've sent you a PM with some pictures, thanks for the much needed assistance!

spartacus · 11 October 2017, 12:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adz1984

I have ordered a multi-meter so I can do that. But I would have thought that if there was an issue with the loom/wiring causing the relay to fail then when I swap the down relay for the known good up relay it would also fail, but this doesn't happen...hopefully the meter turns up before the weekend!

I had a similar problem with my engine. Not entire loom was effected, but with Tohatsu looking for mega-bucks for a new loom, I stripped in new tinned cable where I knew there was no signal. Continuity test is first step to isolate the issue. Good luck to getting this sorted. Electrical faults are the devil's work!

Adz1984 · 11 October 2017, 12:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by spartacus

I had a similar problem with my engine. Not entire loom was effected, but with Tohatsu looking for mega-bucks for a new loom, I stripped in new tinned cable where I knew there was no signal. Continuity test is first step to isolate the issue. Good luck to getting this sorted. Electrical faults are the devil's work!

The devils work indeed! It's like pulling teeth!

Adz1984 · 11 October 2017, 12:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by spartacus

I had a similar problem with my engine. Not entire loom was effected, but with Tohatsu looking for mega-bucks for a new loom, I stripped in new tinned cable where I knew there was no signal. Continuity test is first step to isolate the issue. Good luck to getting this sorted. Electrical faults are the devil's work!

The devils work indeed! It's like pulling teeth! Did you find an issue with the cable for the trim out of interest or was it on another component?

uncle al · 13 October 2017, 11:23

Oil level correct?

Bobg · 13 October 2017, 11:38

If there isn't a problem with the wiring/switch and the UP relay repeatedly fails/burns out, then the next most likely problem is the tilt motor may have shorted windings, or the brushes have started to disintegrate. More power is required to lift the engine UP than down.. With a faulty motor more current will be drawn than the relay specifications, thus burning out the relay contacts.

Unfortunately this requires removing the pump motor and dismantling it to inspect the brushes/commutator. I am not familiar with this engine, so I dont know how easy that would be.

beamishken · 13 October 2017, 12:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bobg

If there isn't a problem with the wiring/switch and the UP relay repeatedly fails/burns out, then the next most likely problem is the tilt motor may have shorted windings, or the brushes have started to disintegrate. More power is required to lift the engine UP than down.. With a faulty motor more current will be drawn than the relay specifications, thus burning out the relay contacts.

Unfortunately this requires removing the pump motor and dismantling it to inspect the brushes/commutator. I am not familiar with this engine, so I dont know how easy that would be.

I'd agree with bobg on this the fault is downstream of the relay causing an overload on the relay
The up relay will always have more load due to the fact it is lifting
The only other possibility is there is a short towards the switch and it's intermittently running the motor with the engine fully up causing the overload
But I presume you have an isolator which you turn off when leaving the boat? In which case you'd hear the motor trying to run assuming your always within earshot when the isolator is on?
Worth investigating but I'd still favour a fault towards the motor