Suzuki DF20A DIY yearly service. - Page 2

jeffstevens763@g · 09 April 2017, 17:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fenlander

As you say duggie it's not an exact science given varying use... but the makers have to give what they regard as failsafe timescales to protect themselves and their warranty.

I wanted to do this first service by the book so I was 100% sure of everything but will use common sense in following years. Having said that I will probably always change the engine and gear oils yearly as they are cheap "insurance".

The other thing I'll not skimp on is the timing belt change at 4yrs as rubber items can suffer age related failure regardless of hours run. Having one snap is a breakdown which I'd seek to avoid at sea... and on some engines when it snaps there can be expensive valve/rocker damage.

What puller did you use David or did you not pull the flywheel?

When I was down central marine services they said they were snowed out with work as they are getting lads from north wales going to them so for me Suzuki need to address the lack of service agents and update their list especially in my area.

Fenlander · 09 April 2017, 18:08

No need to pull the flywheel just to check the timing belt Jeff... but you do need to do so to change it. Haven't had a look yet but I've loads of things that would probably do with minimal mods having previously spent 20yrs with farm equipment and trad Land Rovers to mend.

jeffstevens763@g · 09 April 2017, 19:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fenlander

No need to pull the flywheel just to check the timing belt Jeff... but you do need to do so to change it. Haven't had a look yet but I've loads of things that would probably do with minimal mods having previously spent 20yrs with farm equipment and trad Land Rovers to mend.

Any tips on which puller will be suitable cheers

Fenlander · 09 April 2017, 20:20

You need two tools... one that will bolt to the tappings in the flywheel that has a lever off the side to hold against the force of undoing the nut. The other a puller of some sort that can bolt to the flywheel and draw it off with a central bolt.

In my case the first will be an adapted VW 1.4 flywheel holder I have and the puller may well be an old Metro clutch removal puller I also have modded to fit.

If my old puller doesn't suit I reckon this might well do the job...

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/NEW-PRO-HA...cAAMXQAEFSHeJS

Images of the proper tools for guidance...

jeffstevens763@g · 10 April 2017, 06:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fenlander

You need two tools... one that will bolt to the tappings in the flywheel that has a lever off the side to hold against the force of undoing the nut. The other a puller of some sort that can bolt to the flywheel and draw it off with a central bolt.

In my case the first will be an adapted VW 1.4 flywheel holder I have and the puller may well be an old Metro clutch removal puller I also have modded to fit.

If my old puller doesn't suit I reckon this might well do the job...

NEW PRO HARMONIC FLYWHEEL BALANCE PULLER KIT - 13 PIECE | eBay

Images of the proper tools for guidance...

thanks david ordered one off ebay cheers

Fenlander · 10 April 2017, 13:25

Last jobs today to complete a yearly by the book service...

Get it in the test bucket** to check no fuel or oil leaks after service works.

Check the idle speed on the "Tiny tach"... it's fixed by the ECU of course.

Check the ign timing at (5deg BTDC 1000rpm)... again fixed by the ECU so really just another basic check the ECU is OK.

Reset the oil indicator lamp. This is done while the engine is idling by pushing the stop button 3 times within 3 sec for a fraction of a second each time but not enough to make the engine stop.

Finally just the lower cowls and hood to refit.... plus service book to complete with details of work done.

**Note my new yellow flexy bucket. Saw this in Homebase today for under £4 and it's the first I've found that will squeeze in between the legs of the engine trolley but still hold a decent amount of water.

Sir.Robin · 13 June 2017, 19:27

Wery impressed by your informative thread Fenlander

Just bought my own motor, and having not to many good experiences with service shops... mostly they are sloppy. So i too might do my own service.

Posts like this really come in handy. Thanx again

mbullock · 23 December 2017, 14:48

Hi,
I just wanted to add a word of thanks. We have a DF20a which is paired with an AB rib for use as a yacht tender. We’re just starting a circumnavigation and each year we will be in a different country and therefore getting a stamped Service book is difficult. I was therefore looking to do my own servicing so your post helps a lot. Couple of questions if I may?

Where did you order your parts from and do you have part numbers please?

My engine is just coming up to 20hrs and needs its first service. In my position would you do this yourself also (I have the service manual) or is there some reason to get a dealer to do it?

I also have a question about prop pitch which others may be able to jump in on. According to the Rev counter I’ve attached the engine isn’t revving up to 3000rpm at wot, and the rib won’t plane with more than two people in it. With one or two up it does and the acceleration is excellent. How do I work out if I need a courser or less course pitch and how do I measure the one that was supplied with the engine?

Many thanks in advance

jeffstevens763@g · 23 December 2017, 17:48

Pitch and diameter are printed on the prop back of one blade search fenlanders threads when he bought the engine he went down in pitch for his boat but you are centantly over pitched if the diameter is right

Fenlander · 23 December 2017, 20:24

I ordered the basic service kit from Suzuki on Ebay which was a standard listing at the time. I had to ask them to add the rocker gasket specially for me. I will look the part numbers up later when I've had seconds of a Chinese takeaway!

DIY or dealer is a personal choice. It means you need to be prepared to forgo the extended warranty but you still have sale of goods protection. I worked out the large cost of 5yrs servicing plus the trouble of time and mileage to get to the dealers to/fro each year and worked out DIY and "self insuring" the warranty was my choice.

Re prop pitch as Jeff says look at the prop and report back... mine came with a over pitched 12" one fitted but I refused to accept it and opted for an 11" which was still too much and now my outfit is spot on with a 10".

Fenlander · 23 December 2017, 22:33

Service kit for 2013-on models... 17400-89810-000

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Suzuki-Ge...-/282010031055

or... Suzuki Service Kits M-KIT, DF9.9B/15A/20A (2013 onwards) - Boat Sales,Chandlery,Engine Sales,Repairers,Marine Engineers,Electronics

Valve cover gasket... 11162-89L00-000

Only UK place I could find just now listing it... https://www.ajsutton.co.uk/product/s...der-head?uID=0

But as I said I messaged the Suzuki Ebay folks and they listed it as a one off for me.... and I'm sure PA Lynch would get one too.

BTW if you appear to have found a bargain service kit for around £34 double check as this is usually the pre-2013 one.

mbullock · 24 December 2017, 09:54

Thanks both, very helpful. I’ll check the prop when I’m allowed time off sorting out the cruisers bbq for tomorrow! Happy Christmas to all.

Www.sailingdestinationanywhere.com

mbullock · 24 December 2017, 12:53

Hi guys,
The prop is 9 1/4 x 12. What’s your view given this please? I’m assuming overpropped means too much grip, ie won’t rev?

Fenlander · 24 December 2017, 12:58

Yep that's what mine would have come with. As I said above even the 11" I agreed the dealer should substitute felt a little over geared and the 10" is perfect.

We carry 3 folks plus dog and a lot of kit.. also our SIB being a deepish V is a bit draggy compared to a lighter load and flattish bottom outfit.

Just looking back at the posts... being held to 3000rpm and not getting on the plane 2 up is really bogged down. How big is the AB rib?

jeffstevens763@g · 24 December 2017, 17:18

I agree with fenlander going down to a 10 inch pitch will bring you up to 3400 a 3500 rpm, what is your trim position, it sounds like you may just be in front of the bow wave and need that bit more to get over it.
I guess your boat weight is around £120 kg at 10 ft so your motor should cope easily achieving around 20 knots I would of thought.
Have a look on the Suzuki web site they have boat tests with figures to compare.

beamishken · 25 December 2017, 21:29

If your down to 3000rpm are you sure the tach is reading correctly that's like half what you should be doing, have you tried taking the rpm up with no load to determine the tach is correct?
It may be you are over propped but if that's the case I assume your not getting on the plane? Reducing pitch may help you get out the hole and increase speed and rpm but you can't calculate the reduction in pitch if your only at 3000 rpm
You'll need to reduce pitch till you get on the plane and close to required Rpm then calculate from there

Poly · 26 December 2017, 09:08

Ken’s suspicions sound right to me. If you are only getting 3000rpm then I am surprised you get on the plane (or certainly quickly) with two on board. How do the revs compare fully loaded and lightly loaded and how does it sound?

If the engine is giving full power lightly loaded, then it’s possible that better use of trim and/or load distribution will help you get over the “hump”.

Fenlander · 26 December 2017, 10:39

>>>You'll need to reduce pitch till you get on the plane and close to required Rpm then calculate from there

In truth for a 20hp on a SIB or light tiller steer RIB up to 4m (I'm guessing the OP's isn't longer than this) with two up the range of props hardly needs calculating. 12" would only do for a light skimmy hulled outfit with minimal load... 9" would only be needed if the SIB/RIB is over large or carrying a greater load like 4 folks and kit. So the choice is 10" or 11" and the 10" that these OBs were mostly supplied with is perfect for 90% of situations.

We do need a bit more info from the OP though... particularly if the 3000rpm is when it's bogged down not planning... or is it 3000rpm showing when flat out on the plane with a light load at WOT??

Re tach settings what does it read at idle? Should be 850rpm.

mbullock · 26 December 2017, 10:41

Thanks again guys, super helpful!

The rib is an AB Lammina 10 al, it is 10’6” and weighs 53kg, plus engine and fuel. I bought the Rev counter / hour timer from ebay after reading the original thread on the 20 I think.

This is all from memory but. With just me in, circa 15 stone, it pops into the plane fine and does about 20kts. With me and my wife in (weight a closely guarded secret!) again no problems. Add a third person and we just can’t get onto the plane. the engine is fully trimmed down, ie bow pushed fully down.

I have a feeling that perhaps it’s the prop given what I’ve been reading on here and I do need/want a spare prop anyhow so I can keep 12’ As a spare.

One question, our last set up was an Avon rib of similar length and a 15hp two stroke that someone kindly stole. That engine had those fins on it - should I fit some of those as I understand they help one onto the plane?

I won’t rev out of gear, seems to be limited? Apart from the vibrations at low revs I’m very happy with the engine. So long as the electronics hold out I much prefer this to a carburettor managed engine.

Cheers,

Fenlander · 26 December 2017, 11:50

Helpful extra info thanks...

Your one up performance sounds fine... I'd expect perhaps 23kts in good conditions. So obviously your engine is revving in the right ball park at WOT with the light load. (Note yes it is correct it's rev limited by the ECU when out of gear)

Re load vs performance. Our SIB as I've said above will be more draggy than yours due to our flexible hull and sharper V profile... they weigh broadly the same. So yours should be capable of greater performance with the same OB for any given load.

Our standard load is a total of 34st in people plus dog, too much kit and a full 25l fuel tank. With the 10" prop we can leap on the plane in any circumstance we choose without waiting to get over the hump. Sometimes we are 42st in people plus dog/kit/fuel and we still pop on the plane OK.

If I put the 11" prop on we can still plane under these circumstances with both loads but it feels much more draggy getting onto the plane... particularly with the greater load.

The difference between 10" and 11" props is far more than any theoretical prop pitch calculation would have you believe hence me being fairly sure your 12" prop is a big factor.

Re trim and weight distribution... Keeping the bow down to get on the plane is important but usually just for that brief period getting over the hump then a standard trim is often best. I always run a mid point OB trim position and shift weight to get the boat's trim right. When getting on the plane is marginal I'd just be inclined to ask one crew to move up forward for those few moments and then back when plane is established. By being trimmed fully in you may be causing drag by having too much of the bow in the water.

Doel fins are a marmite thing... I've had them and didn't like them. In truth they are to attempt to correct a poor setup. Your small RIB and 20hp should be an excellent performing outfit without fins.

Re the OB in general. Yes the just off idle offbeat vibration would be better done without but it's a minor thing. So far these engines seem to be very reliable re elecs and I agree I far prefer the accurate control of injection and an ECU.

BTW your Beneteau looks so elegant and for me in the perfect hull colour. One of my all time memories is as a kid in the late 60s on a family holiday in a sleek hulled 55ft motorsailer cruising France, Brittany and The Channel isles for a couple of weeks.