Show of hands...

Dan Gurney · 21 October 2013, 23:54

Who has actually had problems from condensation in the petrol tank over winter?

Also: opinions on fogging an elderly two stroke? I didn't do it last year and all appears to be fine. But then again I probably never left it along for more than a couple of months, whereas this year it's liable to sit until spring.

Cheers.

Locozodiac · 22 October 2013, 00:26

Is it a portable or fixed fuel tank ? If portable and knowing this will be my last outing, would consume the whole tank if possible and get rid of ther rest. No good to keep small amounts over the winter, running fresh fuel is the way to go. If having a fixed internal tank, that's other story...

About fogging, never fog my 2 strokes engine as like to use my rib/engine combo all year round as possible, if in need to come for a short stop, usually run it on muffs for 10 minutes, that way will be internally well lubed till next outing...

Happy Boating

Dan Gurney · 22 October 2013, 06:32

Clarification: it's an internal stainless 100 litre tank. It doesn't have a separate filler pipe though, so when I fill it I'm pouring fuel directly through the top of the tank. This makes getting it completely full and eliminating any exposed parts of the tank wall almost impossible. Therefore if condensation is a serious problem then I think I'd prolly be better of completely draining the tank dry and letting it breathe (perhaps by leaving the cap off?)

Nick Hearne · 22 October 2013, 06:49

Never had a problem with portable tanks inbuilt one or keeping fuel for 6 month at a time! I have used fogging oil in the past but have not bothered for years with no ill effect, I do run my 15 hp 2 st dry when not using it but that's about it!

Festinghouse · 22 October 2013, 06:50

thats what i do with my 91litre plastic tank. completely empty with cap off - though i do this so i can clean out any debris from a seasons use of jerry cans.

Pikey Dave · 22 October 2013, 06:58

I use fuel conditioner & fill my internal tanks to the brim. I use the auto winterise function on the Etecs. I've always done it & never had a problem. I can't say that I would have a problem if I didn't, if you follow. All my boats have had internal tanks & I've always brimmed them for winter.

Mollers · 22 October 2013, 07:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pikey Dave

I use fuel conditioner & fill my internal tanks to the brim. I use the auto winterise function on the Etecs. I've always done it & never had a problem. I can't say that I would have a problem if I didn't, if you follow. All my boats have had internal tanks & I've always brimmed them for winter.

I use exactly the same proceedure.

HUMBER P4VWL · 22 October 2013, 11:22

Twin 70litre plastic tanks. Never had a problem yet in 6 years.

willk · 22 October 2013, 11:36

I've never experienced fuel quality issues after winter. I live in one of the wettest, dampest parts of these islands. The RIB was covered in winter and was in shade most of the day, so probably the tank never warmed up much to "breathe". Filling the tank has to be good. If you leave it open and empty, it will breathe and sweat. That will not dry out, IMO.

Fogging cylinders - I like Loco's solution - oil them up by running on muffs at low revs! Failing that, I can't think of a reason why you wouldn't fog them? I must do mine this week - looks like the WX has broken here for the winter. I use it as an opportunity to check my engine over, plug condition, HT leads, grease, general desalt under hood and dry before storing. It means if I don't need to service it, I should be good to go in the Spring.

The Gurnard · 22 October 2013, 11:44

I started servicing my outboards yesterday although I have not used them for the past month. When I took the cowls off the engines..I was a bit surprised to see water droplets on the metal tray beneath the engine heads and it would have been trapped under the cowl ?

When I put them away in my shed ..they were dry and it was warm weather. I can only assume it is condensation from the colder weather as the shed is dry. It shows to me that condensation can be a problem for my set up.

I always squirt fogging oil into the plug holes and turn the engine over a couple of times..it gives me peace of mind..and the one tin of fogging oil has lasted me a few years ..so its not an expensive peace of mind

I only have 25 ltr portable fuel tanks but if there is any fuel left at the end of the season..I empty it into 5ltr canisters to keep them full, Come the new season..the fuel tanks are filled with fresh fuel and once everything is running well..I start mixing the older fuel with the fresh stuff..never had carburetor problems yet..touch wood

willk · 22 October 2013, 11:54

If there is dried salt in the tray, it will attract water from the air and reform droplets that don't dry in damp conditions. I've seen this on all sorts of kit.

Dan Gurney · 22 October 2013, 16:36

So considering a cannot brim the tank to the point where the top is completely covered. .. what's the next best option?

Searider · 22 October 2013, 16:53

90 litre stainless tank in the 5.4 Searider - never any problems, and also had filler direct in the tank. Always used to fill it as best as I could.

160 litre GRP tank in the Scorpion. never had any problems in 8 years of ownership. Some winters the tank has been full, others not.

25 litre tanks in the 4m searider that stays afloat over the winter - have had some water in the tanks - but it might be dripping onto the filler cap and into the tank through the breather, which I should close, but always forget to!

Aries · 22 October 2013, 16:55

Is there not a problem with ethanol added to petrol degrading much quicker than "old school petrol" and so its better to drain as much as possible and start with fresh next season?

AJ. · 22 October 2013, 16:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clamchowder

So considering a cannot brim the tank to the point where the top is completely covered. .. what's the next best option?

You probably don't want to brim it as I discovered with temperature changes fuel expands and contracts. So although it is doubtful as we are moving into colder temperatures if we got a freaky warmer spell it may overflow

captnjack · 22 October 2013, 17:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aries

Is there not a problem with ethanol added to petrol degrading much quicker than "old school petrol" and so its better to drain as much as possible and start with fresh next season?

I use E10 year round and never had an issue. As is it keeps for at least 6 months, but probably longer. If keeping longer than a few months I normally use stabilizer which isn't very expensive and gives some peace of mind that it'll start fast whenever I use it next.

Pikey Dave · 22 October 2013, 18:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clamchowder

So considering a cannot brim the tank to the point where the top is completely covered. .. what's the next best option?

If you can fill it as far as possible, you are still reducing the surface area available for condensation to form, which will be a darn sight less than if it was empty. Make sure you have a good water separating filter in your fuel line (you should have this anyway) & keep an eye on the filter for the first run out next year.

C-NUMB · 23 October 2013, 15:15

Condensation is a interesting subject. If the space is airtight/closed, only a negligible amount of condensation can occur in a normal size fuel tank (Air can hold only a few gram water/100 L air in 20C temp). But if there is change of air like through a breather line/hole, the process is ongoing and quantity can accumulate over time.

If unsure, better to fill up, I usually do also on gas tight portable tanks, even if really does not matter much.

nik · 25 October 2013, 18:09

I had a diesel rib for 6 years.
200 litre stainless tank.
Never used any diesel treatment, never had a problem.

Bittentobuggery · 26 October 2013, 01:10

To all the "never had a problem" people (and there are obviously many) can I ask how many times you ran your tank dry ?

As I see it, you could be building up a potential problem without realising it. If there is any water, it will sit in the bottom of the tank and only present itself when you are draining the dregs of the tank.

I installed twin tanks on my boat, thinking that if there was ever an issue with dirty fuel, I would switch the supply over to the other tank. This was not a smart move as I'd normally fill both tanks from the same source anyway and once you get dirty fuel at the motor, you're stuffed.

I did have a problem coming back across the channel and embarrassingly conked out on the ferry route between Ryde and Pompey (Thank you for coming to our aid Gaffirs, Rogue & Pete7) When the boat was recovered, Mark Bleeker told me that he removed litres (!) of water from the tanks. I put this down to the fuel that I had picked up from St Vaast for the return journey, thinking that it must have been sat there in tanks on the water all over the winter, as this was early May time.

Whilst this is a probable cause, it is also possible that this was a condensation problem that had accumulated over a period of time within my own boat. I think probably not due to the amount of water that Mark said he extracted, but certainly food for thought.

I now have two water separators in series in my fuel line to try to prevent a recurrence of this situation and try not to let the tanks get low.