Now to add confusion to the mix Willk (who just to remind everyone started this thread hoping to find a rare kill cord at a celticly-acceptable price!) is using a diesel inboard where the kill circuit is wired in the opposite direction [i.e. the switch opens to kill the engine].
I'd like to point out that the confusion was added AFTER I made my heartfelt plea. FYI, I'd say delivered for c.£15 would mean my ancestors could rest easy and not disturb their neighbours with unseemly rotation...
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I'm sorry, but there IS no Mars Bar.
In the usual spirit of, 'If you want it done properly, do it yourself.' here's what I did.
Purchase a decent quaility double throw waterproof toggle switch so it can be on or off depending on the way you choose to wire it - I know a single throw could be mounted other way up but you can guarantee sod's law will prevail at some point. Get a wee strip of stainless steel slightly wider than the switch and file a curve into one end. This strip is going to be made into a guard. Make a cardboard version of this first to get the sizes correct. The other end of the steel strip has a hole drilled into it of a size to suit the switch thread. The steel guard (strip) is going to be mounted on the front face of the switch mounting surface - switch through panel -> steel guard -> washer -> switch nut.
Right, now you need to bend the strip forward at 90 degrees so it pokes out from over the top of the switch, next you need to bend the strip downwards so it protects the toggle in the up position - the filed curve allows tricky access to the toggle should the switch be (inadvertently, of course ) put on without the cord and it needs to be switched off again. The switch is activated by a kill cord of your choice and needs a loop over the toggle before it is switched up behind the guard. The loop can be anything of your choice, wire, metal clip, keyring, the loop on the cord end etc., and if you're incapable of making a suitable clip you shouldn't be let out onto the ocean in charge of a boat! IMHO!
Plainly, the dimensions have to be reasonably accurate and that's where your cardboard comes in to play. The top off yer cornflake packet will do fine for that.
And you'll have the added satisfaction of pride in your work... And, in willks case, the pleasure of outdoing the customs man!
I've never been a huge fan of the Mercury flick switch (and having cruised with willk have no doubts anyone who was trusted with recovering him, would know where the spare cord was etc.)
That's part of the feature list (to quote Microsoft.)
On my original kill switch, the little red button had to be pried out to get the key back on before the engine could be run. It could take anywhere from 30 seconds to over a minute for *me* to get that done, much less someone who had never tried and was going by instructions. That one didn't last long.
The new one is the Merc toggle type. If tripped, one needs only to toggle the switch (which looks like a normal switch - an added bonus), and they can fire the motor and come get me, or at least offset wind and/or current until I can swim back to the boat. The toggle switches are (IMO) more robust than the plastic pull-button type with the circlip-like holdoff.
Spare cord is a good idea (and I have one), but at recovery speed, what are the odds of a second person going overboard? And if that happens, what does the third guy do?
but at recovery speed, what are the odds of a second person going overboard?
You mean when the possibly less experienced helm is leaning over the side trying to pull you aboard? or when an over enthusiastic casualty or crew member bumps the throttle trying to get aboard?
Quote:
And if that happens, what does the third guy do?
on my boat he uses HIS KC to recover you (everyone I trust with the throttle normally has their own on their L/J). However as it will most likely be at low speed the chance of the boat still being in throwing distance is high. If two of you are in the water and the prop is spinning at 4 knots do you think you can catch up, or keep out the way if it circles back?
The new switch obviously has a different lanyard and clip. I need a spare but they're proving elusive. It is a three pronged affair (see attached) but the gap is a little wider than the similar clip found on my Universal killswitch. Basically it's similar to the Evinrude/OMC/Yamaha clips but with an 8mm gap to their 5mm, different. Irritatingly, I bought one by accident back in 2008 for my 'Rudes, and chucked it in disgust. The tartan 50% of my blood is boiling! Has anyone got one going spare or know where I can score one? Not keen to pay $30 postage from the States
did you get sorted willk just noticed on flea bay a universal kill cord with loads of prongs on for £8.50.
on my boat he uses HIS KC to recover you (everyone I trust with the throttle normally has their own on their L/J). However as it will most likely be at low speed the chance of the boat still being in throwing distance is high. If two of you are in the water and the prop is spinning at 4 knots do you think you can catch up, or keep out the way if it circles back?
You are better prepared than most (nearly all, I'd imagine.)
I wasn't at all saying I could catch an idling boat; simply pointing out that the merc type doesn't require a spare cord per person (though you do lose the engine shutdown. Recovering someone from the water to the boat requires a shutdown on my boat anyway. I don't leave the motor running near swimmers.)
Unrelated note: JWalker, you described a home-made Merc/Quicksilver type kill switch.
Poly's strategy is not completely unique. Permanent attachment of KC to lifejacket means you can never forget to attach it to you... ...and as the engine won't start without the other end attached you in build safety. But it does mean each crew member has to have one on the LJ (and they need to wear the LJ)...
I am in the process of re-engining (4LHA-STP) my Pac 22 and I have a question about the kill switch.
The engine came with the instrument panel including the stop button which appears to be a press to make i.e. you press the stop button, this energises the coil and causes the solenoid to operate shutting off the fuel supply.
My thought is that I'm going to re-configure this so that whilst the engine is running the solenoid is energised. You break the circuit, this de-energises the coil which in turn turns off the fuel supply.
The kill switch will go in the circuit between the stop switch and the solenoid.
This means that in the event of a loss of power, the engine will stop which sounds, to me, the safer way.
For info I'm going to use a Murphy solenoid and a SD85 solenoid drive time delay to 'protect' the solenoid. It also means that I can use the ignition switch to turn the engine off rather than using a separate stop switch. The kill switch will interrupt the 'hold' signal on the solenoid which will de-energise the solenoid and shut off the fuel supply.
I'd appreciate your thoughts on whether my methodology on the stop solenoid / kill switch is sensible or not.
This means that in the event of a loss of power, the engine will stop which sounds, to me, the safer way.
It certainly makes sense to me; presuming that you know how to easily spot and disable a problem at sea. e.g. a dodgy connection would kill the engine?
This type of shut off valve (normally closed) may make life easier, I would look for one with a manual override and mount it where you can get at it in heavy seas easily.
However Isn’t one big advantage of the diesel morptor the fact it will keep running without power? So once started you could conceivably loose power but still make it back to shore?
I am in the process of re-engining (4LHA-STP) my Pac 22 and I have a question about the kill switch.
The engine came with the instrument panel including the stop button which appears to be a press to make i.e. you press the stop button, this energises the coil and causes the solenoid to operate shutting off the fuel supply.
My thought is that I'm going to re-configure this so that whilst the engine is running the solenoid is energised. You break the circuit, this de-energises the coil which in turn turns off the fuel supply.
The kill switch will go in the circuit between the stop switch and the solenoid.
This means that in the event of a loss of power, the engine will stop which sounds, to me, the safer way.
For info I'm going to use a Murphy solenoid and a SD85 solenoid drive time delay to 'protect' the solenoid. It also means that I can use the ignition switch to turn the engine off rather than using a separate stop switch. The kill switch will interrupt the 'hold' signal on the solenoid which will de-energise the solenoid and shut off the fuel supply.
I'd appreciate your thoughts on whether my methodology on the stop solenoid / kill switch is sensible or not.
Its currently working correctly the idea being if you loose an alternator or your battery gets smashed cos its come loose or a wire shorts out the engine will keep going
And you get to your destination you then inconveniently need to open the lid to shut off the engin. However thats far better than getting stuck at sea cos youve lost an alternator or battery.
If you wire the solenoid permanent live it will likely burn out.
If you want a failsafe shut off the usual way is an external pull to stop cable on the outside of the engine box
Most older diesels were live to kill or cable kill for these reasons its only morre modern engines that are live to run because they generally require voltage to run other systems that are essential for the engine to run.
Your 4lh only needs fuel and air to run so you can lose all electrical power and still get home
Poly - the fail 'safe' made sense to me. I could either hot wire the switch or ignore it entirely and mechanically hold the fuel shut off lever open. It doesn't help however if the power outage is due to some significant electrical calamity because the engine would be off without a way to start it.
HDAV - I'd looked at those valves but as I already have a shut off lever the solenoid seemed the more obvious solution. If I continue down the route I'm currently thinking about, it might be a more elegant solution. Point noted about the diesel being able to run without power being applied to it.
Beamishken - I decided that relying on a switch to make a circuit if you fell overboard seemed more prone to failure than relying on it to break a circuit. I'm not sure if this is a justifiable decision.
The solenoid would be protected against premature failure by the SD85 relay which energises the coil for a couple of seconds, long enough for it to turn the lever on. There is then a low current hold function that keeps the solenoid engaged.
Yours and HDAV's point about the engine running without needing the boats electrics to be operating is a very valid point.
In my system, there is a chain - battery, fuse, switch all of which need to be working (all the time) to keep the engine going. If this chain fails and isn't fixable, you are engineless which depending on circumstances could be catastrophic.
If your system fails, you are unlikely to notice until you next check the kill cord unless you are in a situation where the kill cord operation becomes critical in which case it could be catastrophic.
With my system, the probability of failure is higher but the consequence of failure is likely to be less severe. With your system the probability of failure is lower but the consequence of failure is likely to be more severe.
I'm not sure which is worse and apologies for my mangling of risk categories. I've tried to find any MCA guidance but other than stating a kill cord should be fitted, there isn't any.
Beamishken - I decided that relying on a switch to make a circuit if you fell overboard seemed more prone to failure than relying on it to break a circuit. I'm not sure if this is a justifiable decision.
The solenoid would be protected against premature failure by the SD85 relay which energises the coil for a couple of seconds, long enough for it to turn the lever on. There is then a low current hold function that keeps the solenoid engaged.
Yours and HDAV's point about the engine running without needing the boats electrics to be operating is a very valid point.
I'll keep pondering.
Cheers
Guy
Using a make to kill switch is exactly what 99% of outboards do to kill their ignition system.
I'm sure the manufacturers carefully considered their systems before they decided this to be the best sytem to use and indeed all manufacturers not just yanmar use this system.
But if you think your system is better than most manufacturers then do it your way
) put on without the cord and it needs to be switched off again. The switch is activated by a kill cord of your choice and needs a loop over the toggle before it is switched up behind the guard. The loop can be anything of your choice, wire, metal clip, keyring, the loop on the cord end etc., and if you're incapable of making a suitable clip you shouldn't be let out onto the ocean in charge of a boat! IMHO!
And, in willks case, the pleasure of outdoing the customs man!
spy-sea-one
Tickler
