Hydraulic steering rework

Nasher · 03 April 2007, 12:29

Hi all.

I’ve decided it really is time to sort out my Hydraulic steering.
“About time” I hear those shout that have used it.

When I was rebuilding the boat I cobbled together a system using second-hand parts from different sources.
An unidentified Helm pump, and equally unidentifiable front mounted cylinder that are not ideally matched, so I have 8 turns lock to lock.
I’ve put up with it so far as it works, its compact, has no leaks, is very light in use, and crucially it cost me under £100 in total.

I’m wondering if anyone has the opposite problem, i.e. too few turns lock to lock, perhaps we could swap something, or does anyone have a spare helm or cylinder lying around that I could try on a sale or return basis?
I obviously need a larger capacity pump, or smaller capacity cylinder.

I can make up a bracket to change the geometry of the cylinder to engine link, but I consider this treating the symptom rather than the cause, as I’ll be putting additional force on the system and only using part of the cylinder travel.

Before anyone says anything, I do not have the budget to buy a new off the shelf system, so no nice links to shinny pieces of kit on chandlers shelves please, it just rubs it in a bit more.

Nasher.

matt h · 03 April 2007, 17:46

Nasher, if i had one, i would give it to you!! sorry i dont tho!!

Hightower · 03 April 2007, 17:56

Looks as though this might go cheep Nasher.

Link

No luck with 27mm Hole saw I'm afraid.

Nasher · 03 April 2007, 18:32

Matt

Thank you, very kind.

Andy

Thanks for the link, will keep an eye on it, shame about the hole saw too.

Have stopped on the way home from work and taken some pictures of the helm and cylinder which I'll resize and post later.
Perhaps somebody will recognise them, and I can work out the spec of both parts.
Have to admit the cylinder does have a label on it, which I'd forgotten, but it is damaged so can't see the full name.

More later.

Nasher.

Nasher · 03 April 2007, 20:22

Right, I wonder if anyone can recognise the maker of the parts so I can start working out a spec.

Pic 1 - The Cylinder from the top.

Pic 2 - The damaged label on the cylinder.
L pompes S Ets(Damage) Schmitt
64240(damage) France
Type VHM
No. 96 04

Will get Goggling in a minute to see what I can find.

Pic 3 - The front of the helm pump.

Pic 4 - Sorry for the quality, the helm pump from the rear.
Its marked with a No. 132424 and has Five ports.
A - In use when I brought it
B - In use when I brought it
T - Blanked off with a plug.
Two blanked off with Slot headed Set screws

Interestingly the T port is blanked off with a plug that looks like it has the same thread as the unions in A and B.
I wonder if the T port would give me any more fluid per rev?
T-Twin?
Any idears anyone?

Nasher.

Jimbo · 03 April 2007, 20:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nasher

T-Twin?

Yep. You can set up a slave cylinder arrangement where you have twin steering wheels - the T port is to keep both fully bled etc.

Nasher · 03 April 2007, 23:02

Thanks Jimbo, will have to look that one up to see how it works.

Nasher

Nasher · 03 April 2007, 23:12

Found a cylinder like mine

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/FRONT-MOUNT-HY...QQcmdZViewItem

£730 for the system

And only for a 175HP

Think I'll keep that bit and look for a pump

Was obviously a better boat jumble bargin than I thought.

Nasher

Nasher · 05 April 2007, 10:39

I've now tested my helm unit by cracking open the bleed valve on the Cylinder and attaching a short length of tube with a large syringe on the end.

I'm only getting about 6 or 7ml of fluid per rev of the wheel, so its probably knackered. from a quick search most pumps start at 20cc per rev and go upwards from there.

Nasher.

codprawn · 05 April 2007, 11:15

I find most hydraulic steering units I have tried are too many turns lock to lock. I would much prefer heavier steering and less turns. One of my cars is only 2.2 turns - why not a boat???

Nos4r2 · 05 April 2007, 12:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nasher

so its probably knackered.

I wonder if it's a standard unit used in industry? It might be worth removing it and taking it to a hydraulic pump supplier to see if they can supply a rebuild kit for it.

Nasher · 05 April 2007, 13:11

Hey Matt

They are quite specialist pieces of kit as far as I know.

I have in the last half hour discovered that I can source a new one through work at a VERY good price, so will do that.

The Nashers Revenge! won't know what to do with something brand new bolted on her!

Nasher

Nasher · 10 April 2007, 15:15

Just a quick update.

New 28cc per rev helm pump fitted Sat morning and has reduced the No. of turns lock to lock to 3.5.

Sundays jaunt to the folly proved its much nicer to drive, but obviously a lot harder work on the arms.

Nasher.

Jelly · 11 April 2007, 07:56

Hi Nasher
As someone who has just been down the whole hydraulic steering rebuild path the importers for the LS cylinder is
EUROPEAN MARINE & MACHINERY AGENCIES
Nutsey House
Nutsey Lane
Calmore Industrial Estate - Totton
SOUTHAMPTON Hampshire SO40 3ND

Tél.: (44) 2380 58 00 20
Fax : (44) 2380 58 00 21
http://www.ls-france.com/ls/uk/
A guy called Leo was extremely helpful on mine, you can get rebuild kits for there units just rebuilt both the pump and cylinder, only had 4 broken springs out of 5 in the cylinders on the helm pump - could have explained the steering issues!!
Sorry no idea on the pump.
Rgds
James