Fuel bulb collapsed again!

ribber · 10 July 2011, 18:53

Fuel bulb collapsed again yesterday afternoon off Calshot (5pm Saturday) when two Ocean Liners coming out. Pretty choppy, six on board. Had this before so thought I could deal with it. Southampton VTS launch in front of Liners passed me showing concern. Managed to get fuel pipe released from bulb tank side, bulb inflated job done I thought. Primed. started engine and 5 yards, stopped, bulb collapsed again. Crew now getting worried as Liners bearing down, drifting with incoming tide and strong westerly, pushing me ever closer to shipping lane. Should I throw out anchor and hold ground. Still determined I could fix bulb. Made call to Sea Start and they reckoned could be there in 5 /10 mins. Bulb still collapsed.
F..k! Stayed calm and took fuel line off engine side of bulb, bulb would not inflate. What with bobbing about and trying to work out any logic to what I was achieving, started blowing and sucking (as you do in a panic) finally got a mouthful of petrol and bulb started doing what it was meant to. Put back fuel line, primed again, bulb working and engine up and running.

Looked up at passing Liners

and thanked my lucky stars, that was close.
Crew, later on shore, admitted to being quite worried!
I guess it's a intermittent problem with the fuel pick up in the tank. I also think it would be a good idea to have transparent sections of fuel pipe either side of bulb to get some idea of flow.
Has any one any thoughts on what I should have done in this situation.

ashbypower · 10 July 2011, 18:59

Seems to me like a blocked/closed breather which would result in the vacuum collapsing the primer bulb, have you checked the tank breather??

Nos4r2 · 10 July 2011, 19:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by ashbypower

Seems to me like a blocked/closed breather which would result in the vacuum collapsing the primer bulb, have you checked the tank breather??

That'd be what I'd be looking at-as well as the bulb breaking down inside and blocking itself internally,stopping fuel flow.

I carry a spare-far quicker to change one than to bypass it.

ashbypower · 10 July 2011, 19:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nos4r2

That'd be what I'd be looking at-as well as the bulb breaking down inside and blocking itself internally,stopping fuel flow.

ribber · 10 July 2011, 19:20

That's the second bulb I've had problems with. I disected the first one and the 'balls' did sometimes stick closed.

I'm not sure how to get to the breather pipe, small access hatch in deck reveals what I think to be fuel gauge sender unit, sealed it mastic. Don't want to break seal as ingress of water would be more of a problem. But must get this sorted as no fun

Nos4r2 · 10 July 2011, 19:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by ribber

That's the second bulb I've had problems with. I disected the first one and the 'balls' did sometimes stick closed.

I'm not sure how to get to the breather pipe, small access hatch in deck reveals what I think to be fuel gauge sender unit, sealed it mastic. Don't want to break seal as ingress of water would be more of a problem. But must get this sorted as no fun

Change the bulb anyway and carry a spare. What make are you using?
Guessing a bit here but:-
If you've got an internal tank( usually somewhat larger breathers than on portable tanks),you're only getting 5 yards between the bulb going round to flat and you're managing to get the bulb to go round after being flat, it's far more likely to be the bulb than the breather.

Erin · 10 July 2011, 19:45

Had this very same situation on my last boat. Turned out to be debris that was getting sucked up the pipe from the tank and blocking at the first restriction which happened to be the barbed inlet on the water separator. Once all the detritus was cleared out it never became a problem again.

I'd be carefully emptying your tank and searching for bits of debris floating around. In my case it was loose bits of GRP from original manufacture.

ribber · 10 July 2011, 19:47

Thanks for that 4r2
Thinking about it, your probably right, the breather must be combined with the filler pipe, like that on the car, other wise I would get petrol blowing back at me when filling.
What about the pick up in the tank, if that got blocked would that collapse the weakest point - bulb!
Again, not sure how to get to that.

I as ever trying to penny pinch, used to fill up with metal jerry cans and suspect internal rust from these may have got into the under deck tank.

willk · 10 July 2011, 19:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Erin

I'd be carefully emptying your tank and searching for bits of debris floating around. In my case it was loose bits of GRP from original manufacture.

I've heard of this happening on other boats too. It's stunning how "they" let this occur. You'd think a manufacturer would be sweating keeping a seal on the tanks at all times, but it's not the case.

Poly · 10 July 2011, 19:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by ribber

Fuel bulb collapsed again yesterday afternoon off Calshot (5pm Saturday) when two Ocean Liners coming out. Pretty choppy, six on board. Had this before so thought I could deal with it. Southampton VTS launch in front of Liners passed me showing concern. Managed to get fuel pipe released from bulb tank side, bulb inflated job done I thought. Primed. started engine and 5 yards, stopped, bulb collapsed again. Crew now getting worried as Liners bearing down, drifting with incoming tide and strong westerly, pushing me ever closer to shipping lane. Should I throw out anchor and hold ground. Still determined I could fix bulb. Made call to Sea Start and they reckoned could be there in 5 /10 mins.

Mmm... I think I'd have been calling VTS not seastart. I don't know what the launch's protocols are but presumably if you were at serious and imminent danger they would have got you out the way. Sometimes a tow is the best solution and I'd have been tempted to call help and rig a tow rope rather than hope I could fix it in time. I once broke a rudder on a sailing dinghy in the path of a cargo vessel and whilst I could have sailed it rudderless as per my training a tow was definitely the right choice...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nos4r2

Change the bulb anyway and carry a spare. What make are you using?
Guessing a bit here but:-
If you've got an internal tank( usually somewhat larger breathers than on portable tanks),you're only getting 5 yards between the bulb going round to flat and you're managing to get the bulb to go round after being flat, it's far more likely to be the bulb than the breather.

If you do suspect the breather and it happens again it should resolve itself it you open the fuel filler cap (even briefly). Ribeye should be able to confirm the intended "plumbing" for the vent though so you can do some preventative maintainence/inspection.

Nos4r2 · 10 July 2011, 19:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by ribber

Thanks for that 4r2
Thinking about it, your probably right, the breather must be combined with the filler pipe, like that on the car, other wise I would get petrol blowing back at me when filling.
What about the pick up in the tank, if that got blocked would that collapse the weakest point - bulb!
Again, not sure how to get to that.

I as ever trying to penny pinch, used to fill up with metal jerry cans and suspect internal rust from these may have got into the under deck tank.

Could be the pickup as you and Erin suggest. it might be worth draining the tank via a wide(ish) bore hose and a sieve or funnel with a gauze filter and see what you get out. It'd take some pretty big flakes of internal rust from a jerrycan to block a pickup unless it's blocking your fuel filter.

ribber · 10 July 2011, 20:17

Good idea.

Excuse my next expression, but these engines have viscous sucking power, the slightest Hiccup, air in pipes/pick up/debris/vacuum - collapses the bulb in nano seconds. So it could be any of these. Perhaps larger diameter fuel pipes would be the answer, leaving the fuel filters to do there work. So you could physically remove debris at a known point.

Bigmuz7 · 10 July 2011, 20:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by willk

I've heard of this happening on other boats too. It's stunning how "they" let this occur. You'd think a manufacturer would be sweating keeping a seal on the tanks at all times, but it's not the case.

Very much agree

Ive been a victim too

... I cant remember if it was a Redway though ?

Erin · 10 July 2011, 21:02

This is what came out of my old tank and caused the blockage. Thank you Mr Boatbuilder

(Just for clarity not Osprey)

BogMonster · 10 July 2011, 21:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by ribber

Has any one any thoughts on what I should have done in this situation.

Congratulate yourself for having fitted an aux

Hightower · 10 July 2011, 22:14

What make of Primer bulb was it?

Nos4r2 · 10 July 2011, 22:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by BogMonster

Congratulate yourself for having fitted an aux

martini · 11 July 2011, 00:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Erin

Thank you Mr Boatbuilder

(Just for clarity not Osprey)

Pay peanuts, you get donkeys

Erin · 11 July 2011, 11:17

ribber · 11 July 2011, 16:07

Hightower. It was a quick silver.

Guess it's worth changing the bulb every season. But I will have a go at cleaning out the tank this winter when on the drive. Or maybe, just steer clear of Liners