Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
 
Old 05 July 2020, 07:53   #1
Member
 
Country: UK - England
Length: 3m +
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 39
Evinrude 140 service - part 4. Stops running after a couple of seconds.

I will attempt to verify exact model.

This motor has been sat a long time.

The cooling system is now ok.

It's got fresh fuel going in, which already has 2 stroke oil in. It's a VRO engine so it will be adding its own too.


It fires on the button but seems to only run a couple of seconds. I have the fast idle set slightly.

It revs to about 2500rpm and then stops dead. Like the ignition has been cut.

Is this likely to be either too much oil in the fuel? (it is smokey)

Fouled plugs due to above?

Or stuck up carbs?

Or something else?

It's currently running without the gearcase on as I am waiting for the water pump parts to arrive.


Video here:


https://youtu.be/e3jJBvrVk1k



Thanks for your help!
__________________

__________________
rich222 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05 July 2020, 08:24   #2
Member
 
A1an's Avatar
 
Country: UK - Scotland
Town: Fort William
Make: Humber Destroyer
Length: 5m +
Engine: Yamaha F80
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 2,435
RIBase
It's not delivering the correct amount of fuel. It's nothing to do with an oily mix. I haven't read any of your other posts but if you haven't already I'd be taking carbs off to inspect/clean/balance.

Engine will run at higher rpm with gearbox off. Set idle with gearbox on and in water.
__________________

__________________
There is a place on this planet for all of Gods creatures.........right next to my tatties and gravy.
A1an is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05 July 2020, 10:05   #3
Member
 
Country: UK - England
Length: 3m +
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by A1an View Post
It's not delivering the correct amount of fuel. It's nothing to do with an oily mix. I haven't read any of your other posts but if you haven't already I'd be taking carbs off to inspect/clean/balance.

Engine will run at higher rpm with gearbox off. Set idle with gearbox on and in water.

Hi A1an,



Not sure if the VRO would cause this issue.


The other thing could be stuck carb floats. I believe that there is a startup solenoid that puts fuel directly into the intakes so maybe this is why its running briefly?


I'll look into checking the floats next...


I didn't want to go too far into carb stripping if I don't need to...
__________________
rich222 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05 July 2020, 11:18   #4
Member
 
Country: UK - England
Length: 3m +
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 39
Had a quick look in the air box.

It all looks very clean and tidy in there. In fact it looks brand new.

There is a LOT of 2 stroke oil in there though.

I had a quick check of the float bowl drains and all had oil in.

So I am thinking that I just need to drain this all off and get some clean fuel in there. The fuel is clean up to the VRO.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	20200705_163601 (Medium).jpg
Views:	24
Size:	150.1 KB
ID:	133935   Click image for larger version

Name:	20200705_163607 (Medium).jpg
Views:	24
Size:	104.8 KB
ID:	133936  
__________________
rich222 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05 July 2020, 12:01   #5
Member
 
A1an's Avatar
 
Country: UK - Scotland
Town: Fort William
Make: Humber Destroyer
Length: 5m +
Engine: Yamaha F80
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 2,435
RIBase
How long has the engine been sitting since it was last used in anger?
__________________
There is a place on this planet for all of Gods creatures.........right next to my tatties and gravy.
A1an is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05 July 2020, 13:45   #6
Member
 
Country: UK - England
Length: 3m +
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by A1an View Post
How long has the engine been sitting since it was last used in anger?

5 or 6 years.


I can't quite believe how free of corrosion and spiders the carbs are.


The teleflex was well stuck, as were the driveshaft spines.


I am assuming the oil is fresh out of the VRO pump and not just left behind after the petrol evaporated years ago?


It's possible that only oil is coming through to the carbs from the VRO and fuel is getting injected by the starter solenoid - hence why it runs for a few seconds and then stops?


Does the oil get mixed inside the VRO pump?
__________________
rich222 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05 July 2020, 14:11   #7
Member
 
A1an's Avatar
 
Country: UK - Scotland
Town: Fort William
Make: Humber Destroyer
Length: 5m +
Engine: Yamaha F80
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 2,435
RIBase
I’m not familiar with the VRO, I used to have a Johnson 60hp with VRO years ago but ditched the VRO for premix.

My gut feeling is that it’s the evaporated petrol that is giving you your starting issue. I know you don’t want to start digging in to the carbs but it’s where I would start.

Do the carbs have a bowl drain on them? If they do you could try flushing the carb bowls by opening the drains and pumping CLEAN fuel through them but that’s a long shot.
__________________
There is a place on this planet for all of Gods creatures.........right next to my tatties and gravy.
A1an is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05 July 2020, 14:47   #8
Member
 
Peter_C's Avatar
 
Country: USA
Boat name: Uh...a kayak?
Length: 4m +
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 1,564
It is running out of fuel, you can hear it slowly loose power. You could try pumping the primer bulb in between starts to see if it makes a difference but I doubt it will.

Since it has probably been 15 years since the carbs were last touched it is probably time for a rebuild. Kits are reasonably priced. I'd also recommend replacing the fuel pump, and all fuel lines.
__________________
Peter_C is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05 July 2020, 16:16   #9
Member
 
spartacus's Avatar
 
Country: UK - Scotland
Town: Aberdeenshire
Boat name: Sula
Make: Ribcraft 4.8m
Length: 4m +
Engine: Tohatsu 60hp + aux
MMSI: 235087213
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 3,931
RIBase
Strips the carbs out, ultrasonic clean and reassemble. When you fired it up you had a puff of smoke. Next is to check fuel pump. Easy enough and cheap with a rebuild kit. Also check onboard fuel filter. Lastly the primer bulb. If the rubber feels hard, then replace. Quicksilver or OE part. The internal diaphragm can fail.
__________________
Is that with or without VAT?
spartacus is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05 July 2020, 16:27   #10
Member
 
A1an's Avatar
 
Country: UK - Scotland
Town: Fort William
Make: Humber Destroyer
Length: 5m +
Engine: Yamaha F80
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 2,435
RIBase
If you want to, send me the carbs and il stick em in the ultrasonic cleaner for you.
__________________
There is a place on this planet for all of Gods creatures.........right next to my tatties and gravy.
A1an is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05 July 2020, 17:03   #11
Member
 
Country: UK - England
Length: 3m +
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 39
The carbs have drain plugs, which I will drain out tomorrow.


The oil looks fresh which is why I think its coming from the VRO pump.


The carbs were all soaked in oil and there was loads in the airbox.



I am thinking that its the VRO that's not pumping fuel. (it pumps oil and fuel together).


There is a seperate fuel circuit from a starter soleniod that puts a shot of fuel directly into the inlet manifold, bypassing the carbs. I think this is what's making the motor run initially.


Pumping the primer bulb won't get fuel into the carbs (I don't think) as the VRO is in the way.


I still don't fully understand what makes the VRO operate, it's not electric although it does have wires going to it, probably for the oil level detector? The manual mentions that it uses crankcase pressure and vacuum?


I will see if I can get at the fuel output from the VRO before it branches out the the carbs and see if there is fuel being pumped. There may be check valves or surge valves that are stuck preventing fuel flow.
__________________
rich222 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06 July 2020, 07:04   #12
Member
 
Country: UK - England
Length: 3m +
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 39
Success! Thanks for all the suggestions.


Take a look at what came out of the float bowls (below)!


Now she starts on the button and runs for as long as my neighbours can stand it!


I have no idea if this motor is running right, it was 6 years since it last ran.


What do you think? Sounds a bit uneven? Or is this normal for this motor, of this age (20-30 years old)?


Remember its running on a (at least) double dose of oil.


https://youtu.be/e3jJBvrVk1k




Float bowl contents:
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	20200706_122756 (Medium).jpg
Views:	32
Size:	81.0 KB
ID:	133963  
__________________
rich222 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06 July 2020, 14:39   #13
Member
 
Peter_C's Avatar
 
Country: USA
Boat name: Uh...a kayak?
Length: 4m +
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 1,564
Quote:
Originally Posted by rich222 View Post
Take a look at what came out of the float bowls (below)!
The carbs need to be rebuilt. All that junk will plug the jets continually until you take them apart and clean all of them.

The last video doesn't show the motor running just starting and stopping. If you put the lower leg into a garbage can filled with water it will create a little more back pressure and make it far quieter for the neighbors, while also allowing you to better hear how the motor is running.
__________________
Peter_C is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06 July 2020, 16:18   #14
Member
 
Country: UK - England
Length: 3m +
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter_C View Post
The carbs need to be rebuilt. All that junk will plug the jets continually until you take them apart and clean all of them.

The last video doesn't show the motor running just starting and stopping. If you put the lower leg into a garbage can filled with water it will create a little more back pressure and make it far quieter for the neighbors, while also allowing you to better hear how the motor is running.

Sorry old video!


Here's the most recent one:


https://youtu.be/-CM7Q-0NEIY
__________________
rich222 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06 July 2020, 16:46   #15
Member
 
Country: UK - England
Town: Leicester
Length: 5m +
Engine: 135hp Mercury
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 955
At idle that sounds pretty much like mine - Mercury 135 V6 2-stroke - when on muffs. Much better when in water.
You could give the water tank suggestion a go but I think you're going to need to do an on water test to see what happens as you open the throttle under load.

My Mercury has what they call 'oil injection'. Basically a small pump drips oil into a single 'T' piece on the fuel line prior to the carburettors. Sophisticated it isn't! Common mod on these was to block off the pump & run on pre-mix 50:1. (Mine still works fine so I let it get on with it but monitor the remote tank level)
__________________
paintman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07 July 2020, 03:21   #16
Member
 
Country: UK - England
Length: 3m +
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by paintman View Post
At idle that sounds pretty much like mine - Mercury 135 V6 2-stroke - when on muffs. Much better when in water.
You could give the water tank suggestion a go but I think you're going to need to do an on water test to see what happens as you open the throttle under load.

My Mercury has what they call 'oil injection'. Basically a small pump drips oil into a single 'T' piece on the fuel line prior to the carburettors. Sophisticated it isn't! Common mod on these was to block off the pump & run on pre-mix 50:1. (Mine still works fine so I let it get on with it but monitor the remote tank level)

Thanks! I hope to get the gearcase on today with its new pump in. Hopefully I can find a barrel big enough to get the prop in to run it up in water.


Most youtube videos I found sound more or less the same as mine. Certainly doesn't run like a well oiled sewing machine!
__________________
rich222 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07 July 2020, 05:06   #17
Member
 
Country: UK - England
Town: Leicester
Length: 5m +
Engine: 135hp Mercury
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 955
IME if you want a quiet engine (bike or boat) buy a four stroke.
Friend of mine had a 90hp Yamaha 4 stroke on his boat.
If we were sat side by side talking I had to turn mine off or it was a shouting match.
I only knew his was still idling by the water coming from the telltale!
__________________
paintman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07 July 2020, 06:04   #18
Member
 
Country: UK - England
Length: 3m +
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by paintman View Post
IME if you want a quiet engine (bike or boat) buy a four stroke.
Friend of mine had a 90hp Yamaha 4 stroke on his boat.
If we were sat side by side talking I had to turn mine off or it was a shouting match.
I only knew his was still idling by the water coming from the telltale!

Tell me about it! I have a tiny 2.5hp 4 stroke which is quiet. Still not whisper quiet which is odd really as it gets annoying on a quiet river after a while.



Anyway, 2 strokes are all about power and low weight with the major drawbacks of horrible pollution.



It's an ancient design after all.




I'd love a nice shiny new, clean, quiet, efficient 150hp 4 stroke but don't have a spare £13k!


I am hoping to sell this Evinrude with the speedboat and trailer for £2000...
__________________
rich222 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07 July 2020, 09:00   #19
Member
 
Country: UK - England
Length: 3m +
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 39
Some more vids, this time in water with the gearcase on.


Not too bad I think?


https://youtu.be/DZ65PsZeYSQ


https://youtu.be/tybO-RsoCn8
__________________
rich222 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07 July 2020, 10:12   #20
Member
 
Country: UK - England
Town: Kent
Boat name: KB350
Make: Elling
Length: 3m +
Engine: Suzuki 8HP
Join Date: Jun 2020
Posts: 52
Says both video's are private for me
__________________

__________________
Oldman2 is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
evinrude

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off




All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:15.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.