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Old 18 November 2011, 16:02   #1
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Eco Fuel????

When I was Cowes a few weeks ago the guy on the fuel barge said they didn't have any petrol left as they had to drain the tanks because they were switching over to eco fuel.

So if I fill up from there in the future will this eco fuel be ok in my tanks and in my 1995 2 smoke outboard???

Thanks in advance
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Old 19 November 2011, 03:21   #2
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I believe Eco Fuel is a generic term so you'll have to ask them for more details.
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Old 19 November 2011, 04:50   #3
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It'll probably be 7.5% ethanol, possibly even 10%. Most petrol is currently 5%, bizarrely the (more) expensive higher octane fuels e.g. Vmax, Optimum etc contain more ethanol as it increases the octane rating. Bog standard unleaded generally has less ethanol. As we all know ethanol is a bad thing
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Old 20 November 2011, 04:54   #4
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Hi

I think Pikey Dave is not scareing you enough. Any so called supper fuel or change from the standard will hurt your engine.

Oh and this is on 4 strokes as well.
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Old 20 November 2011, 09:11   #5
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Here main stream fuel is now called 95E10, containing 10% ethanol. That is not workable for older outboards. I use 98E(max 5 % ethanol) for my Yam, so far ok but in my opinion 5% too much ethanol in that too....

I am not at all convinced about the real ecological benefit of using ethanol in fuel, time
will tell.
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Old 20 November 2011, 11:08   #6
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Ethanol attracts water and holds the water suspended in the fuel.

Its SHITE and if you are going to run it in your boat make sure you have the best water seperator / filter that you can get and I would even consider having two.
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Old 20 November 2011, 11:17   #7
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Should add... one of the main issues if you have not run E10 before is that it does not mix well with normal fuel and also will clean a lot of built up deposits from the tank and piping which although it sounds good actually can cause issues. Make sure you carry a couple of spare fuel filters when you are starting to run it.
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Old 20 November 2011, 14:47   #8
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Ethanol attracts water and holds the water suspended in the fuel.

Its SHITE and if you are going to run it in your boat make sure you have the best water seperator / filter that you can get and I would even consider having two.

Hi All

I have been using only shell v power super unleaded for the last two seasons and have never found water in the separator filter but i am not sure on the ethanol content of this fuel
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Old 20 November 2011, 14:54   #9
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Hi All

I have been using only shell v power super unleaded for the last two seasons and have never found water in the separator filter but i am not sure on the ethanol content of this fuel
The vpower contains more ethanol than regular unleaded. You are basically paying more for less

ee lad, tha can't educate pork
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Old 20 November 2011, 19:10   #10
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We've had E10 over here for a long time. Works fine in every outboard I've owned. A 2 stroke mariner 15hp, a 25hp 4 stroke Yam and a 60hp 4 stroke Yam. Yes it absorbs water. Doesn't seem to be an issue as I fill up along with the truck. I'd be more wary at low volume marinas.
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Old 20 November 2011, 19:31   #11
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Ditto Jack's comments. The few water in fuel problems I hear of are usually traced to leaky filler caps on boats or at gas stations. I have yet to hear of a single phase separation incident (where the alcohol and absorbed water drop out of suspension.)

That said, older engines (say, pre-90 or so) may have alcohol sensitive rubber compounds in hoses, seals, etc. Pretty much everything after is fine with E10.

There was a large push her in the states to up the alcohol to 15 or 20 percent, but I think that got shot down when someone figured out it took more than a gallon of diesel fuel to produce a gallon of ethanol (though that, like most politically motivated statements, may or may not be true.)

Talk to the Brazilians; as I understand it, they've been running E85 as a standard fuel for several years.

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Old 21 November 2011, 04:49   #12
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Ditto Jack's comments. The few water in fuel problems I hear of are usually traced to leaky filler caps on boats or at gas stations. I have yet to hear of a single phase separation incident (where the alcohol and absorbed water drop out of suspension.)
That sounds right to me - so having two separating filters is unlikely to help. Cleaning out contamination from the bottom of the tank could be an issue though - presumably there is a reason why the marina is draining its tank completely!

Presumably more "suspended" water in the fuel could lead to increased corrosion on metal tanks etc? How do those engines which are really tetchy about water in their injectors (optis?) take to it?
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Old 21 November 2011, 11:21   #13
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Presumably more "suspended" water in the fuel could lead to increased corrosion on metal tanks etc? How do those engines which are really tetchy about water in their injectors (optis?) take to it?
Don't think it affects the injectors much as the water is suspended on a molecular level; the alcohol burns and the water is freed as vapor - not all that unlike fuel burning (which creates primarily CO, CO2 and water, not in that order for quantities.)

As far as corrosion in metal fuel tanks, I don't really know. You are talking about fairly small quantities of water, though, and it will be partially bound up in the alcohol, so I doubt it would be much of a worry.

There are problems with older fiberglass/GRP fuel tanks (from the 70's as I recall) whose vinylester resins tend to fall apart on exposure to ethanol; these are primarily found on larger cabin cruisers (reportedly Bertrams, and maybe Carver's? and don't remember the other big name.) Resulting goopy fuel would mandate a complete engine teardown to clean it out. Not a good thing, when you consider that pulling the motors usually means dismantling the cabin to cut the deck out to get access...

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Old 21 November 2011, 12:02   #14
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European models of Yamaha 2 stroke are not compatible with e10, at least that I have been informed. Think it it was something to do with plastic, rubber or gaskets, but not sure.. Does anyone have confirmed other information?
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Old 21 November 2011, 12:36   #15
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Dont worry Boys!...WHEN the Isrialies hit Iran we'll be lucky to have ANY Friggin Petrol!
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Old 21 November 2011, 12:43   #16
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European models of Yamaha 2 stroke are not compatible with e10, at least that I have been informed. Think it it was something to do with plastic, rubber or gaskets, but not sure.. Does anyone have confirmed other information?
The older ones, this is probably true. Anything built within the last 15 yrs is probably fine. Its not like they had 2 different types of fuel hose in the factory and switched depending on engine destination, and alcohol resistant fuel lines have been around awhile though.
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Old 21 November 2011, 13:26   #17
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Etecs are designed to run 10% ethanol, it's not the engines that are the problem it's the long term storage of the fuel. Typically in a car, the fuel gets turned around fairly quickly & doesn't sit in the tank. Ethanol will absorb water from the atmosphere or even worse, condensation (another reason to keep those tanks full over winter) & eventually the water & ethanol separate out of the petrol. The water/ethanol sinks to the bottom of the tank right to where the fuel pickup is. The next thing is the engine gets a gob full of water & ethanol sludge. If you don't have good water separators, this goes to the pump & then to the carb/injectors & no engine will like that, regardless of make. Get those Racors fitted
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Old 21 November 2011, 13:38   #18
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Dont worry Boys!...WHEN the Isrialies hit Iran we'll be lucky to have ANY Friggin Petrol!
Think i,l get me a sail boat then
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Old 21 November 2011, 13:49   #19
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Etecs are designed to run 10% ethanol, it's not the engines that are the problem it's the long term storage of the fuel. Typically in a car, the fuel gets turned around fairly quickly & doesn't sit in the tank. Ethanol will absorb water from the atmosphere or even worse, condensation (another reason to keep those tanks full over winter) & eventually the water & ethanol separate out of the petrol. The water/ethanol sinks to the bottom of the tank right to where the fuel pickup is. The next thing is the engine gets a gob full of water & ethanol sludge. If you don't have good water separators, this goes to the pump & then to the carb/injectors & no engine will like that, regardless of make. Get those Racors fitted
If you're not using up the fuel go boating more!
A decent fuel preservative seems to prevent this boogy man from really being any kind of practical problem. I have heard of phase seperation for about 10 years now and don't know a single person its actually happened to.
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Old 21 November 2011, 13:57   #20
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If you're not using up the fuel go boating more!
.
I wish It's not that easy here in the frozen north
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