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Old 20 April 2013, 10:56   #1
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Can't start brand new Mariner 9.9

I cannot get my brand new Mariner 9.9 manual (4 stroke) start to run for more than a few seconds. Everything is brand new, although engine was PDI'd last November and I've kept it on stand in garage since.

Before I give dealer a call, thought that I would check the obvious. Hopefully its just a case of user error.

Its on stand with muffs for cooling. Brand new ancillaries as supplied with engine and petrol was fresh today.

Connected up fuel line, arrow pointing to engine - connectors hard to fit but got them to click.

Opened fuel tank vent, pumped fuel bubble on fuel line until it was hard. Choke out, neutral check, kill switch to run, pushed fuel primer bubble few times (too many?) then cranked it over.

Some times it would run for few seconds, but mostly not much. Its all pretty smooth turning over.

I wonder if its fuel starvation as the times that I got it to run, I had pumped the primer a few times. Of course, I may be flooding it. But I gave it a rest for hour or so and tried it again. Same thing.

Looked up Internet and there are similar symptoms with engines left for a while. But this is brand new and I don't think fuel has ever been near it before. As its on muffs and not run in, my options are limited - its many miles from real water and boat not in state to be used yet. Just testing engine before the maiden launch.

Hopefully its something simple, fuel starvation, vapour lock, user error. Certainly sounds fuel related as when it does briefly get going, tell tail flows and it seems smooth.

Suggestions appreciated before I give dealer a call next week.
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Old 20 April 2013, 11:02   #2
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Was there fuel left in when it was PDI'd?
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Old 20 April 2013, 11:43   #3
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If it turns over and fires at all, push the choke back in and try again. Or at least most of the way in. Choke shouldn't be needed except to get it to light up a bit, then often can be run unchoked. Might need to pull and dry the plugs if they've got a bunch of oil on them.

Doubt its vapor lock if the thing hasn't been running; usually crops up after running.

Luck;

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Old 20 April 2013, 11:54   #4
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I'd put money on over choked...had a Suzuki 4s that never needed it....
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Old 20 April 2013, 12:23   #5
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If the block is relatively warm (15C) then potentially it may need no choke at all, or just a touch. Did you kill the choke after it fired?
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Old 20 April 2013, 12:57   #6
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There was no evidence that fuel had been put in it when it was PDI'd. I picked it up a few after the psi was done and it was dry, no fuel smell and freshly greased and no mention of fuel. Dealer knew it was going to be laid up until the spring.

I've tried all permutations with the choke. When I get it running, and push choke in, it immediately dies.

However I took the opportunity to check the plugs. No oil but a bit sooted. I'll give them a clean tomorrow and check the gap.

I think though I probably flooded/over choked it initially and everything has stemmed from that as I tried different things and probably flooding it again.

I have had a bit more success and have it running for a few tens of seconds now after I took the fuel line off and repeatedly ran it until dry - I guess that rules out fuel starvation as it ran better without fuel line! On one of the longer runs, It was running nice with choke out, but died immediately it was pushed even partially in.

Thanks for info so far. Learning exercise and reason why I run it up off the boat with time on my hands.
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Old 21 April 2013, 08:49   #7
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Couple of observations which may not be helpful:

(1) Outboards (especially small ones) seem to be temperamental on muffs, especially when cold. I put it down to the different back pressure with no water on the exhaust - but mechanically that might be wrong. Find a big bucket / barrel for debugging!

(2) I find my engine much more 'enthusiastic' about starting and staying running cold with "fast idle lever" rather than choke. I don't have a very scientific approach to winding the lever down but I guess I start at 3/4 up, then after its definitely running reduce it to 1/2 then 1/4 and then after a minute or two all the way back - if it sounds like its struggling at all then raise it a 1/4. Once warm it will tick over with no 'fast idle' all day long.
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Old 21 April 2013, 10:57   #8
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My old Yamaha ( just a few years old ) did exactly this when I bought it and tried to start it the first time. It looked like new so I never tried it when I bought it. After cleaning plugs and getting the same result I had an apyphany and as I thought the choke on the carbs was very slightly dried out on the pivot bearing on the carbs and stuck closed even when the choke was in... A quick spray of wd40 on the carbs choke pivot bearing and hand action to work it in and the choke flicked open as it should.

Sounds like your choke maybe stuck on the carb closed, check it....
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Old 21 April 2013, 11:22   #9
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Have you set engine revs at start on the the tiller? Used to have a Yammie 25 that would only start with choke out (after priming) and slightly higher revs. On starting push choke in and reduce revs, depending on how the engine sounds. I'd also pull the plugs and dry them off. Every time you try the engine they'll get wet. Probably just flooded.
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Old 21 April 2013, 20:58   #10
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Actually, if it'll only fire up on the choke I'd get it back in under warranty. It sounds like a blocked jet if it stops running as soon as you turn the choke off.
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Old 22 April 2013, 00:59   #11
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If its a near brand new engine (run then left stored for a few months I would suspect some sort of white powder residue build up in the carb float chamber that's blocked a jet .
I had the same problem with a near new 4 stroke outboard a few years ago that had only been run for about 15 hours , stored then would not start proper ,
After removal of the carb float bowl everything was coated in a fine chalk like powder .
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Old 22 April 2013, 03:09   #12
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This is a great engine and is the same as the Tohatsu and mercury and is under warranty so speak to your dealer. Thats what we are paid for and its part of the service. I am also guessing that it was mail order engine as most dealers will also dem your engine and show you how to look after it it.
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Old 26 April 2013, 12:48   #13
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All sorted now.

It was not an Internet purchase so i do have full local dealer support (just not at 4:55 on a Saturday) so took it back to my dealer this morning. When I collected in Dec it was thoroughly demo'd but not shown running. It had been run in their tank same day as it was PDI'd that morning. I had not realised that it had been run during PDI as it had been cleaned so well - something repeated today.

Very quickly, user error was ruled out as the engine would appear to only run on full choke even in the tank and it simply would not idle. So I left it with dealer to investigate further. Problem traced to fuel starvation in idle function/jets. The exact cause is unknown, but after carb was removed and blown through with airline, it tested perfectly, and again when I collected this afternoon. The issue was believed to a minute piece of debris from the manufacturing process in the idle jet, that has now been blown through. No mention that any other residue/powder had been found on interior or carb.

I was reassured that the engine sitting since December (thought it was Nov when I posted earlier) would have had no bearing on its operation to cause this rare issue.

However, the one thing that I learned from this is that I'm going to keep a spare pair of spark plugs, feeler gauges and fine emery cloth in my tool kit. Not that it would have made any difference this time.

Thanks for all that contributed with ideas. I'm just glad that I decided to start the engine at home before being in the situation where it would have ruined a day or weeks holiday.
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Old 27 April 2013, 06:11   #14
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Quote:
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All sorted now.

I. The issue was believed to a minute piece of debris from the manufacturing process in the idle jet, that has now been blown through. No mention that any other residue/powder had been found on interior or carb.
That's good news & it was not the way you were trying to start it ,

I traced the white powder/ residue in the carb/ float bowl back to the fuel tank connecter ,
Looks like who ever assembled at the factory used too much of the white paste sealant that had also got inside the male connecter (hence it not getting picked up by the Filter/strainer on the pick up pipe in the tank though it must have washed itself through the other filter on the engine then collected in the carb causing the jet to get blocked ,
Just wonder how many other new engines have had this problem .
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Old 27 April 2013, 07:08   #15
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I started it up on the muffs back at home this morning. Choke out, it started first time with the weakest of pulls.

The choke could be pushed back in reasonably soon, but too quick and it got a bit lumpy. Apparently the newer engines run quite weak so choke is normally required when starting from cold.

Surprised how long it ran after I disconnected the fuel tank.
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Old 27 April 2013, 11:26   #16
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Glad you're back up and running. Smaller 2-strokes seem to be kind of fiddly with exact procedures; every motor has its own preferences.

jky
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Old 27 April 2013, 15:40   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IanH View Post
I cannot get my brand new Mariner 9.9 manual (4 stroke) start to run for more than a few seconds.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jyasaki View Post
Glad you're back up and running. Smaller 2-strokes seem to be kind of fiddly with exact procedures; every motor has its own preferences.

jky
Quote:
Originally Posted by jyasaki View Post
LOL.

Apparently, these guys are working strictly off the subject line of the post (from a year and a half ago) and not bothering to read the thread at all.

Do you really want these guys on the water?

jky
...
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Old 27 April 2013, 21:36   #18
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Willk; not sure what you're trying to say. I responded to Ian's post. And to be fair, that comment was about someone asking availability of a year and half old "for sale" post that had a "sold" post in the thread (at least I seem to remember it was.)


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Old 28 April 2013, 04:09   #19
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Willk; not sure what you're trying to say. I responded to Ian's post. And to be fair, that comment was about someone asking availability of a year and half old "for sale" post that had a "sold" post in the thread (at least I seem to remember it was.)


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I think he was just having a little jest about you responding to a 4 stroke thread with info about 2 strokes!
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Old 28 April 2013, 04:46   #20
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I think he was just having a little jest about you responding to a 4 stroke thread with info about 2 strokes!
....
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