British Seagull Kingfisher engine - noobs need help - Page 2

Landlockedpirate · 16 April 2017, 11:15

Unfortunately the world is full of sellers who either have little knowledge or who deliberately want to rip you off. The good news is, you have now arrived at the right place and will get loads of free impartial advice, the more questions you ask, the better your boating should be. You need a short/standard shaft outboard (its the same thing).

To echo everyone else. The Seagull was a mistake, they are terrible to start, noisy, smokey and no where near the stated power output and its a long shaft :-( . Put it on ebay and hope for the best.

The Honda is tatty and a long shaft and IMHO not really suited to a sib (even in short shaft), the single cylinder Honda's are noisy and not particularly smooth, they also dont give the 'punch' of a 2 stroke 5hp.

I like the Suzuki, but will sell for silly money. The Mariner is a great engine, 1 of the best small engines ever on a sib, but I think you will want more power (and speed) very quickly. It also looks a bit tatty and seller has no knowledge of previous use.

When you go to view an engine, always see it running in a tank or on flush muffs. Make sure it starts quickly and easily ( A good engine should start by the 3rd pull ). Make sure the seller talks you through the engine. Check that it has got a good strong cooling tell tail.

Pikey Dave · 16 April 2017, 11:28

Avoid buying anything from Dan Cooper or one of his aliases. Be wary of anything for sale in the Ely/Bury StEdmunds area. Run it by the collective first.

Katie.harker · 16 April 2017, 11:43

An oldie but is it a goodie? Comes with original manuals.
Mercury 3.6 outboard Short Shaft Engine | eBay

Also this long shaft:
mercury 9.8 hp long shaft outboard engine | eBay
OH has been told on another forum/group, and it has been mentioned on here, that you can mod the boat for a longer shaft - he wasnt willing to do it for the Seagull but he may do it for a more powerfull engine.

thestig1973 · 16 April 2017, 11:53

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/182529331375

4 stroke but would suit your needs if budget allows

Located in Manchester

Katie.harker · 16 April 2017, 12:12

Is it not bad for it not to have been run at any point?

Fenlander · 16 April 2017, 12:20

That Mercury 3.6 is not an engine I'd buy... it's basically an upgraded 2hp which doesn't even have gears... you spin the whole thing round to go backwards.

Do not buy the wrong shaft length for your SIB... stick to short shaft motors only. (the way to mod them is search for a replacement short shaft gearbox/lower unit and swap over... you do not want to get involved with that)

There are so many short shaft 4/5hp motors that are perfect for you... OK so some have sold and some are too far away but over say the next two weeks something ideal will come up in your area.

thestig1973 · 16 April 2017, 12:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Katie.harker

Is it not bad for it not to have been run at any point?

I would guess it's just like buying a new engine that's been stored in the shop if it's genuinely never been used

Landlockedpirate · 16 April 2017, 12:23

You can modify the transom to suit a longshaft by sticking a 5" extension on top, but why would you ??

You have a nice new boat, keep it that way

beamishken · 16 April 2017, 13:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Katie.harker

Is it not bad for it not to have been run at any point?

Yes engines thrive on work an engine sat stored away in someone's dark dank shed will be far worse than one that's been used regularly and properly maintained
An engine straight out of long term storage needs a good going through to make sure everything is OK . Not a good idea to take one straight out on the water

Katie.harker · 16 April 2017, 15:14

Would everyone else agree this is a good engine?

thestig1973 · 16 April 2017, 15:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by beamishken

Yes engines thrive on work an engine sat stored away in someone's dark dank shed will be far worse than one that's been used regularly and properly maintained
An engine straight out of long term storage needs a good going through to make sure everything is OK . Not a good idea to take one straight out on the water

I agree totally beamishken, however as this particular engine has never been started and stored indoors I would imagine it would be as new, obviously a check before use is always advisable

Katie.harker · 16 April 2017, 18:38

So, in our typical fashion, on impulse, we went out and bought that DF4 that was suggested by thestig1973.
Didn't learn our lesson from the Seagull though - bought it without seeing it run.
We entered a cheeky offer at £400, which was countered with £450.
Offered £430 which was rejected. It wasn't until later that I realised the rejection had come with a comment, that they would accept £400 but please call him.
Turns out he had a few offers at £400 but he was being stubborn. His wife told him to accept £400. I guess we hit it at the right time.

We have tested it and it works great. Sooo much quieter than the Seagull!

The seller of the Seagull has now blocked our number so I guess he is an asshole.

thestig1973 · 16 April 2017, 18:50

I'm sure you'll be very happy with your purchase, looks perfect for your europa sib/river use and I doubt it'll depreciate in value if you sold it in a year or two, especially in the summer months

Looks like new, I think you've got what is basically a brand new outboard for a fraction of the cost......fwiw, I would have paid £400 of my own hard earned cash if I was needing an outboard

Katie.harker · 16 April 2017, 18:52

OH wants to get serviced straight away, even though the first water its seen was us testing it today.

I'm all for refreshing the oil, if there is anything in there but does it really need a full service?

beamishken · 16 April 2017, 19:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by thestig1973

I agree totally beamishken, however as this particular engine has never been started and stored indoors I would imagine it would be as new, obviously a check before use is always advisable

I hadn't read that specific advert and was talking in general terms obviously a new engine stored inside in a warm cupboard should be fine looks like a good buy

thestig1973 · 16 April 2017, 19:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Katie.harker

OH wants to get services straight away, even though the first water its seen was us testing it today.

I'm all for refreshing the oil, if there is anything in there but does it really need a full service?

Other people may disagree, but spark plug will be new and unused, impeller again new, but just make sure it pumps a strong stream from the cooling outlet (unlikely, but rubber could potentially dry out if left indoors in warm conditions)

Oil...... again I suspect it's fine, but to play safe I'd consider an oil change and I think your good to go for the season

Read your manual and grease the relevant parts..... sell/return the seagull and I guarantee you'll never regret buying the europa/df4 package [emoji106]

Fenlander · 16 April 2017, 19:04

Well done... a very good choice this time and a decent price.... and a good heads up from Stig seeing it.

You will need to run this outboard in for 10hrs. Do that first then change the engine and gear oils. Otherwise as Stig says all the other bits will likely be OK until a service in a years time. The spec for your engine is actually for 6 monthly engine/gear oil changes but I reckon that's more frequent than you need.

I assume you received the manuals with it describing the running in procedure. If not it is...

Avoid maintaining a constant engine speed for an extended period at any time during the engine break-in by varying the throttle position occasionally.

1. FIRST 2 HOURS For first 15 minutes, operate the engine in-gear at idling speed. During the remaining 1 hour and 45 minutes, operate the engine in-gear at less than 1/2 (half) throttle (3000 r/ min).
NOTE: The throttle may be briefly opened beyond the recommended setting to plane the boat, but must be reduced to the recommended setting immediately after planing.

2. NEXT 1 HOUR Operate the engine in-gear at less than 3/4 (three-quarter) throttle (4000 r/min).

3. LAST 7 HOURS Operate the engine in-gear at desired engine speed. However, do not operate continuously at full throttle for more than 5 minutes.

Running it in on the river will be easy because it will probably get up to max river speed on half throttle. Once it's done the first 3hrs it will be good for the engine if you can use it somewhere you can vary the throttle right up to full power.

thestig1973 · 16 April 2017, 19:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fenlander

Well done... a very good choice this time and a decent price.

You will need to run this outboard in. Do that first then change the engine oil. Otherwise as Stig says all the other bits will likely be OK until a service in a years time.

I assume you received the manuals with it describing the procedure. If not it is...

Avoid maintaining a constant engine speed for an extended period at any time during the engine break-in by varying the throttle position occasionally.

1. FIRST 2 HOURS For first 15 minutes, operate the engine in-gear at idling speed. During the remaining 1 hour and 45 minutes, operate the engine in-gear at less than 1/2 (half) throttle (3000 r/ min).
NOTE: The throttle may be briefly opened beyond the recommended setting to plane the boat, but must be reduced to the recommended setting immediately after planing.

2. NEXT 1 HOUR Operate the engine in-gear at less than 3/4 (three-quarter) throttle (4000 r/min).

3. LAST 7 HOURS Operate the engine in-gear at desired engine speed. However, do not operate continuously at full throttle for more than 5 minutes.

^^^^ good advise..... and I haven't forgotten how helpful fenlander (David) was when I had an ECU issue last year......

ShinyShoe · 16 April 2017, 21:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Poly

Seagulls have a weird cult following, so you should find someone to sell it on to - unfortunately they know the value of them pretty well so unlikely to make a profit. It will be worth more if you can show it running though so get it working in a barrel with the water at the right depth - I'd never buy a motor from an unknown source without seeing it running.

It certainly will be. I picked mine up as a bargain as it was untested having sat for 5+ years unused. It certainly hadn't been tested and then listed as untested as the cork on the fuel tank was bone dry. Think I paid £50 and it would be worth £120 now having cleaned the points. I've replaced a plug and a plug lead (I damaged the lead changing the plug) and I bent the clip that holds it up. I've spent £20 on it.

Quote:

I wouldn't put a seagull on any boat, even a classic sailing boat where they look ok, because you want to be able to use a motor with confidence and they were never that reliable at starting when new never mind with decades of aging, and modern users who aren't used to the quirks of old engines like points and chokes and carbs...

Actually when they break they are EXCEPTIONALLY simple to fix. No electronics etc. But I don't think they have a place on a SIB as such. A tender yes where they are saving effort of rowing rather than as a tool for touring etc... They aren't good for starting because of the flying away cord, and no kill cord (although adding one is simple). But lack of neutral is the real downside to me... ...leaving a jetty is an art!

1:10 oil mix is a safety feature... when I go missing you will be able to find me by following my oil slick ;-)

camelgas · 17 April 2017, 17:16

Have any of the anti seagull people ever run one ?, I have had a few on tenders !.

I agree they are noisey and smelly, but mine have been good starters and reliable, super easy to work on too and no one ever nicks them