200-250 Ob, 4 Stroke Or 2

TIM · 14 April 2003, 15:16

OK I know I was asking about Diesel / Stern drives, But looking at the extra costs of a diesel instlation i.e about £9,000, That will buy a whole lot of petrol...........

SO, the queastion is 2 stroke vs 4 stroke and which is the best motor, to go for??? Honda, Yam. Evinrude, Mercury etc.....

OR it Diesel the best way to go??????

thorper · 14 April 2003, 16:23

I've found the Yam 200 HPDI to be a good engine. No way as efficient as a diesel, but it gives you the responsiveness of a 2 stroke with much better fuel economy.

I think the mercury optimax? and evinrude ficht technology is similar to HPDI.

As far as 4 strokes go - they tend to be much heavier and less responsive, which you don't really want, especially on smaller boats.

Ricky

TIM · 14 April 2003, 16:39

How many Liters per mile are you getting

Alan · 14 April 2003, 16:47

The pros and cons of various outboards have been debated at length if you search back through the mists of time on the forum. For info I get about 1l per mile from a 200Yam Hpdi on a 7.75m boat at cruising speeds of 30-35kts. But I got moreorless the same from a 150 Opti on a 6.45m boat before that. Yams supposed to be better engineered & certainly is quieter than Opti.

Alan

seahound · 14 April 2003, 17:45

At the moment i am having twin 200hp Evinrude Ficht's installed on a 32ft Scorpion cabin cruiser, replacing 2 x 300hp Merc promaxes. Once i start putting some miles under the belt i will let you know about fuel efficiency/noise etc.
Yamaha have a good reputation and a well proven history, however Ficht technology in the right hands ie. Bombardier are quoting some impressive figures that match and sometimes better Yam 4 stroke and other 2 stroke technology. Wether this is actually the case, only time will tell. With Ficht you get a 3 year warranty and the initial price saving over Yamaha make it a more attractive option, with noise levels and fuel consumption no worse if not better than competitive technology.
Ficht technology coupled with Bombardier's engineering expertise is one for the future. Bloody expensive if i am wrong though !!

TIM · 14 April 2003, 19:10

Fichts are the dogs bol**x , We have about 300 hrs on ours and they have run like a clockwork mouse... The only draw back is ficht ram oil that you have to use at 34€ for 3.75 liters, its a pain in the ass..... But the get up a go is fantastic.....

dgpw · 15 April 2003, 06:58

The HPDI is cheaper to service and run than the optimax. It uses any type of 2 stroke oil where as the optimax and the ficht both take special types. The optimax is louder but would defiantly be my choice of the 3. I would not get a Honda 225 as they are heavy and have less power at the top of their range. Get an optimax of a HPDI they are the best 2.

Optimax for speed and power
HPDI for economy and reliability ect.

The new 2 stroke designs are so much better than the old I would only get a 4 stroke now if the boat is going to spend the majority of it's time at tick over. Ie If I need a boat to teach in 4 stroke, If I wanted my own boat 2 stroke.

Up to you. I would look at the use for the engine, weight, initial cost, running cost (remembering that Yamahas can take most 2 stroke oils (valvaline ect)) service intervals, warranty lengths, where your nearest support for is, the boat it is going on. (talk to owners some boats are better with some engines some work some do not.)

seahound · 15 April 2003, 08:11

I saw the latest Mercury and Mariner big 4 strokes at the london boat show. I think they were 225hp. They were huge, i thought my 300hp Promaxes were big until i saw these monsters. I can't see these engines being practical at all, the physical size and subsequent weight, without the grunt of a 2 stroke leave these engines with no advantage over a modern 2 stroke. The prices were way over the top as well.

dgpw · 16 April 2003, 15:30

what were they priced at. out of interest. Does any one have a veiw of what the best big 4 stroke is. other than the honda 225 I have only seen / used big 2 strokes?

TIM · 17 April 2003, 09:04

I have been doing some research on the web, From what I can see in four strokes, the Yam 225 is better, as it has more 'power' if you know what I mean at the top end compared to the honda, in fact its hard to find any thing bad about them on the net......

As Far as 2 strokes Go Yamaha have the lead followed by Mercury Opti and Evinrude are Last, But the new generation Of Fichts or D.I. as they now like to call it, are starting to get great reviews and they went the stigma of unrelibilty goes away, I feel they will be the best, They certianly have the best technology out there at the moment.....

I think on the new RIB I will go for the Yam 225 4S

Aging Youth · 17 April 2003, 12:40

Hi Guys

Based on what I have read & the many differing/intersting views regarding the use of 2/4 stroke against the diesel. These are based on large 150Hp plus engines & Larger boats.

What about when comparing smaller engines ie sub 100Hp is there much difference in performance/fuel comsuption ect.

Also is there a minimum size of Rib to install a diesel in?

Regards

P.S. Happy Easter to all & Happy Playtimes now the holiday has begun

dgpw · 17 April 2003, 13:26

Um I am not so sure about the ficht having the best tec. It is different and has the potential to be good. But untill some of the engeines have lasted hevy use for atleast 3 years I would not buy one. The yam are nice as they take normal oil. Far better. I love the opti though. Ficht definatly the 3rd I would buy in the 200 + range

thorper · 17 April 2003, 13:53

I would agree with dgpw - being able to use standard 2 stroke oil will probably make a big difference to your running costs. The HPDI's have been around for a while now, and are well proven.

On my boat, I get about 1litre / mile - I dont know how much you would get with a similar 4 stroke, but the pickup and response from the HPDI is awesome.

If you're looking at a yam 225, check the engine weight and see if its any different from the 250. On the 2 stroke HPDI range, the 150 and 200 are the same size, and the 225 and 250 are the same. If you can get more power for the same weight it's probably worth paying that bit more, as long as your boat can take the engine.

Ricky

seahound · 17 April 2003, 20:59

It seems that the main reason Ficht are coming down in the pecking order in outboard choice is because of lack of history (with bombardier that is). I am sure we are all familiar with the OMC history and Ficht, and when it comes to spending hard earned cash, people like to go with a safe option, thats Yamaha 2 or 4 stroke. Sometimes that logic is the way to go, but with recent developments in outboard technology, the safe option may not always be the best.

I really don't think that oil consumption really comes into the equation. HPDI, Opti, Ficht , you still have to buy oil, and when you are running big outboards ie 200hp plus if you are worried about the cost of oil (because consumption is so small with new tech) then you are in the wrong sport, sport.

Ian · 22 April 2003, 12:06

No mention of Tohatsu in this thread. I am looking at 120hp for my 5.4 Searider. Are Tohatsu any good or is it safer to stay with Yamaha, Mercury or Suzuki?
It is less weight than similar in the 120 range and I am informed by the 'salesman' that Tohatsu make Mercury engines who then add their own casing and brand colours. Is this the case?
Thanks
Ian

Manos · 22 April 2003, 17:08

I thought Mercuries were made in Europe or is that for Mariners??

Keith Hart · 22 April 2003, 19:08

Just out of interest, was the Wankel engine ever developed into a marine engine? I'd have thought that it's light weight, simplicity and ability to run whilst upside down (well it doesn't really have an upside down) would have made it an ideal candidate.

Keith (genuine question) Hart

Tiger · 26 April 2003, 11:59

I think mazda did sort out the problems on the RX7 engine and its ment to be clever design, though people are scarred of it as no-one knows much about it. yes lighter ansd more effecient /powerful I remember

Norton also used on their bikes and did well racing, but dont know much about that either, just good TV.

On the flip side, would you want to be the first to buy this unknown technology if used on an outboard, big risk for the likes of yamaha to invest in when no one trust it at first.
Then again 4stroke broke through.

tiger

badbaws · 29 April 2003, 22:25

the dealer giving me a quote for a 200 hpdi yam and a 200 optimax reckons they are about the same fuel consumption as the 200 yam 4 stroke about 60-70 litres an hour flat out...
I think the yam is nicer but costs 500 more...and the 4 stroke another 2500 more...
alex

dykkeren · 30 April 2003, 18:52

Hi

I use my boat both with light load and heavy load, up to 12 divers. The 4 stroke yam. performs good in both conditions, moderate fuel consumption so far.

The boat, equipment and motor combination weights in at 1300 kg, with 200l petrol.max payload is 1500 kg.

Driving alone, it's reaching 50 knots, with max load 35 knots.

Didn't even look at an 2 stroke bcs I knew this boat would run with much load most of the time, so midrange performance where more important than maximum power at max rpm.

But this combination of boat and motor, are fun to run in storm condition.