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Old 08 May 2006, 19:12   #21
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Originally Posted by Millermob
so if the drawbar is not included how long was the trailer you use for your boat ashleyd? as looking at the same sort of size you have bu still want to be able to tow it. Tornado one used to be towed around and that was 8.5 metres.
The guy that pointed out that the Discovery + 8.1m rib was illegal is a commercial driving instructor. We borrowed a trailer to rescue the boat (after an engine failure in Devon), so unfortunately we can't measure it. The boat is 8.1m long. If we assume that the draw bar starts at the winch post then the this guy was correct & the trailer was infact more than 7m long & therefore illegal with this vehicle. Incedentally, as far as I know, no 4x4 weighs in excess of 3.5 tones kerb weight, so this is a problem faced by any person without a tacho or lorry!

I think its about time that people were made aware that they may be braking the law when towing - we certainly were not before this guy bought it to our attention.

The good news is that the Police don't seem to know this regulation, so the chances of a road side tug are minimal.

The bad news is that your insurance company do know the regs & your fully comp insurance is probably invalid & reduced to third party only. Had we wrapped the Disco & Scorp around a lamp post on the way back to Lymington that day, the insurance company would have bought the local Council a shiny new lamp post & then told Ashleyd that his vehicle & boat were not covered. Bye bye £60 grand

I have posted on this subject quite a few times, but people don't seem to want to acknowledge it.

Ian
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Old 08 May 2006, 19:38   #22
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Thanks for the info, I was not aware of that law, so basically you can't tow it, put it on a low loader or break the law, seems stupid that they don't make people more aware of it
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Old 08 May 2006, 20:59   #23
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The draw bar apparently starts as soon as it makes an A shape - not just from the winch post. Many trailers are almost 1/3rd draw bar!!!

Also as has been pointed out before you can legally tow a glider trailer which can be as much as 20m long!!!

http://www.shirenewton.co.uk/html/trailers.htm

Glider trailers seem to get around the length problems by being designed to carry an indivisible load.

Surely a RIB is also an indivisible load - unless you take a chainsaw to it!!!

http://www.bwnd.co.uk/images/laws%20and%20rules.pdf

About 1/2 way down you will find the most complete explanation of the trailer laws I have see. - useful reading.
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Old 08 May 2006, 21:50   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by codprawn
The draw bar apparently starts as soon as it makes an A shape - not just from the winch post. Many trailers are almost 1/3rd draw bar!!!

Also as has been pointed out before you can legally tow a glider trailer which can be as much as 20m long!!!

http://www.shirenewton.co.uk/html/trailers.htm

Glider trailers seem to get around the length problems by being designed to carry an indivisible load.

Surely a RIB is also an indivisible load - unless you take a chainsaw to it!!!

http://www.bwnd.co.uk/images/laws%20and%20rules.pdf

About 1/2 way down you will find the most complete explanation of the trailer laws I have see. - useful reading.
Trailers with a length in excess of 7m may well be legal in themselves but not when towed behind a vehicle with a kerb weight of less than 3.5 tonnes. The Police may not enforce it, but the law is the law. People towing gliders may have an excemption under the indevisable load rules, but as far as I know this does not apply to boats.

I feel that the only way to resolve this question is for someone to get a written statement from an insurance company.

Codders as you are about to tow a large rib back to Wales - perhaps you would oblige? I'm sure you would want to know if your new pride & joy was uninsured on her maiden road voyage.. Please tell them what vehicle you will use, & the total length of the trailer. Then point them in the direction of the Dept of Transport website. It would also be handy if you could get clarification of where the draw bar starts.
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Old 08 May 2006, 21:59   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by codprawn
Glider trailers seem to get around the length problems by being designed to carry an indivisible load.

Surely a RIB is also an indivisible load - unless you take a chainsaw to it!!!

http://www.bwnd.co.uk/images/laws%20and%20rules.pdf

About 1/2 way down you will find the most complete explanation of the trailer laws I have see. - useful reading.
nice bit of googling there cods, the best trailer explaination i have seen to date

nice to see i can tow up to 8.2 tons total vehicle train weight which is a stat i wanted to check out

cheers
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Old 08 May 2006, 23:51   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ashleyd
I have been stopped towing my 8.1 behind a Discovery. Well within weight limits but over the 7.0M length permisible with thsi class of vehicle.
Guys, I'm confused....
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brambles
The guy that pointed out that the Discovery + 8.1m rib was illegal is a commercial driving instructor...
Are you talking about the same incident?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brambles
..... I think its about time that people were made aware that they may be braking the law when towing - we certainly were not before this guy bought it to our attention.

The good news is that the Police don't seem to know this regulation, so the chances of a road side tug are minimal.
I don't believe that anyone is breaking the law by towing a long boat. Have a look at this post: http://www.rib.net/forum/showthread.php?p=33260 and until someone puts their hand in their pocket and buys a copy of "Road Vehicles (construction & Use) Regulations 1986" we will be merely speculating with no evidence! Looks like that whilst codprawn's glider trailer comment may be valid, his googling won't solve this one!
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Old 09 May 2006, 01:53   #27
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The prob is that there is probably NO definitive answer - the law is an ass - always open to interpretation.

Googling will get you all the legal crap - but it still prob won't make sense!!!

http://www.opsi.gov.uk/

It's all here if you can be bothered to look. Remember it is NOT just the 1986 act itself - all sorts of amendments - and then there is EU law as well.....
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Old 09 May 2006, 06:26   #28
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Ian

Tacho Doesnt make any difference, its just if your a business and your towing and your maximun possile weight is over 3500kg you need a tacho.

IE my landy is 2400kg and my trailers mam is 3500 kg, however it is only 800kg, my trailer and landy are then 3200kg however i still need a tacho even if the trailer is empty because its MAM is 5900kg, does this make sense
?

Anyway wheres big Jono ????

Jono
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Old 09 May 2006, 07:21   #29
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Guys, I'm confused....
Are you talking about the same incident?
Yes.. I went with Ashleyd to give him a hand.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard B
I don't believe that anyone is breaking the law by towing a long boat. Have a look at this post: http://www.rib.net/forum/showthread.php?p=33260 and until someone puts their hand in their pocket and buys a copy of "Road Vehicles (construction & Use) Regulations 1986" we will be merely speculating with no evidence! Looks like that whilst codprawn's glider trailer comment may be valid, his googling won't solve this one!
We were pointed in the direction of the regulations by this instructor & I have to say his interpritation seems to be clear enough. However, I agree that googling will not solve this one either, which is why I suggested that codprawn writes to his insurance company for a definintive answer. After all, they should know & he should have a vested interest bearing in mind the road trip he is about to make with his new boat. How about it codders?

Ian
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Old 09 May 2006, 11:10   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jono Garton
Ian

Tacho Doesnt make any difference, its just if your a business and your towing and your maximun possile weight is over 3500kg you need a tacho.

IE my landy is 2400kg and my trailers mam is 3500 kg, however it is only 800kg, my trailer and landy are then 3200kg however i still need a tacho even if the trailer is empty because its MAM is 5900kg, does this make sense
?

Anyway wheres big Jono ????

Jono
Have ya got ya Digi Tacho card yet Jono???? As from May any new vehicals sold requiring fitment of a tacho, must be of the digital type. Slightly off topic (sorry) but just curious
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Old 09 May 2006, 12:07   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brambles
Yes.. I went with Ashleyd to give him a hand.



We were pointed in the direction of the regulations by this instructor & I have to say his interpritation seems to be clear enough. However, I agree that googling will not solve this one either, which is why I suggested that codprawn writes to his insurance company for a definintive answer. After all, they should know & he should have a vested interest bearing in mind the road trip he is about to make with his new boat. How about it codders?

Ian
Why should they know? After talking to Customs and various other official bodies about importing my boat it seems that they never have a clue - until the shit hits the fan that is!!!

All these laws are so full of holes and open to "interpretation" often there is NO definitive answer!!!
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Old 09 May 2006, 14:46   #32
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Originally Posted by codprawn
Why should they know? After talking to Customs and various other official bodies about importing my boat it seems that they never have a clue - until the shit hits the fan that is!!!

All these laws are so full of holes and open to "interpretation" often there is NO definitive answer!!!
Well they ought to know & I would ask the question if I were in your situation. But hey it's your boat so it's up to you. I sincerely hope the sh*t doesn't hit the fan on your journey home.
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Old 09 May 2006, 17:57   #33
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I thought we'd done this feckin' topic "to death"..ho-hum...
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Old 09 May 2006, 18:20   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by codprawn
All these laws are so full of holes and open to "interpretation" often there is NO definitive answer!!!
The important question to ask of your insurers is not "is it legal" but "am I covered".

This may confuse them because there will most likely be a warranty of legality clause in your insurance (boat). If you are doing something illegal you're not covered.
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Old 09 May 2006, 18:22   #35
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Trailer manufacturers?

Something that's just occurred to me.

I would have thought that if you could buy a standard trailer from a reputable manufacturer it would be legal to tow it?
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Old 09 May 2006, 19:41   #36
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I thought we'd done this feckin' topic "to death"..ho-hum...
Done yes. To death? Not quite, as no conclusion has been reached.

For what it's worth - after speaking today to the DVLA, The Dept of Transport (twice), 2 trailer dealers & two driving instructors specialising in towing training (ok, so it was a quiet day in the office ) I have not heard anything to persuade me that the advice we were given was wrong.

Just trying to point out that many of us may not be complying with the law & therefore at massive financial risk in the event of an accident. Thats all.
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Old 09 May 2006, 22:08   #37
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Originally Posted by Brambles
Done yes. To death? Not quite, as no conclusion has been reached.

For what it's worth - after speaking today to the DVLA, The Dept of Transport (twice), 2 trailer dealers & two driving instructors specialising in towing training (ok, so it was a quiet day in the office ) I have not heard anything to persuade me that the advice we were given was wrong.

Just trying to point out that many of us may not be complying with the law & therefore at massive financial risk in the event of an accident. Thats all.
What advice? I have been told the trailer length of 7m does NOT include the drawbar/A frame which can be as much as 1/2 the length!!! You mention maximum length of 18m so a 9m boat and a 5m long Land Rover are WELL within the limit.
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Old 10 May 2006, 07:23   #38
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What advice?
I was referring to the advice given by the commercial driving instructor who stopped us in Devon & informed us that the Disco & 8.1m boat rig was illegal.

Quote:
Originally Posted by codprawn
I have been told the trailer length of 7m does NOT include the drawbar/A frame which can be as much as 1/2 the length!!!
The people I spoke to yesterday all agreed that the genearally accepted rule is that the draw bar starts at the winch post.

Quote:
Originally Posted by codprawn
You mention maximum length of 18m so a 9m boat and a 5m long Land Rover are WELL within the limit.
If you refer to the extract it does mention 18m as a maximum length for both classes of vehicles. However if you read the first part (refers to vehicles with kerb weight of less than 3.5 tonnes) the length limit for the trailer is 7m. Seems pretty clear to me.
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Old 10 May 2006, 12:39   #39
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Remove the winch post then!!!
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Old 10 May 2006, 14:34   #40
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Remove the winch post then!!!

Classic! That would make the trailer longer
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