The Lulworth Cove "cowboy"

[Jimbo]

Originally Posted by timw

Obviously quite proper for you to tip off the MGCA about his operation...

Originally Posted by timw

I can't believe whats going on here...reporting him to the MCA,...

[timw]

sarcasm...you tried it earlier remember

[Jimbo]

Originally Posted by timw

sarcasm...you tried it earlier remember

Yes, I do recall now you mention it. It didn't work for me particularly well either.

[Nos4r2]

[timw]

Yup

All I've tried to do was try and stick up from seomeone who was being ripped apart with insufficient evidence and unaware of it happening, a kind of "talking behind someones back" situation. I just don't like that.

However it seems they I am significantly in the minority here, so I'll just let you lot get on with it.

[Aidan]

Ye are all for the birds!!!!

What happened to innocent until guilty.

He deserves a fair trial, then and only then, we will hang him!

In any event its nice to see ye all so concernd and "Pontificating" if that is a suitable word....

Who is next for the chop????

Now what about my question about boats over 7.5 meters being exempt from the rule about wearing jackets.

Also he coud be using a remote wirless Kill Cord dongle.

[codprawn]

Originally Posted by timw

Yup

All I've tried to do was try and stick up from seomeone who was being ripped apart with insufficient evidence and unaware of it happening, a kind of "talking behind someones back" situation. I just don't like that.

However it seems they I am significantly in the minority here, so I'll just let you lot get on with it.

Not the only one - I am a firm believer that there is no such thing as black and white - just a big mushy grey mass!!!

This bloke could have more experience and better boat handling skills than anyone here. Then again he may not.

[Sixy_the_red]

For all the 'pontificating' going on here, I'll tell you what I see. I see a group of (mainly) very experienced and competent helmsmen / commercial operators who have seen something that concerns them (and concerns me too) and are making comment. I don't see Nauti Boy's actions as 'ratting out' a cowboy, I simply see a fellow operator making his concerns known to the proper authorities. Attempts have been made to contact the operator in question without success, but all the same, attempts have been made.

Whether or not his actions are illegal is somewhat of a irrelevence IMO (and quite frankly highlights serious failings in the legislation), his actions are unprofessional, plain and simple. Surely as a coded skipper it is his job to put forward a professional image at all times?

He IS putting life at risk if he is taking people out into open water without life jackets and a killcord and that IMO is wrong.

Now play nicely children or I shall take away all your toys.

[Milo72]

Well said STR.

the coding says nothing about jackets having to be worn, and the kill cord has to be fitted and working, but not necessarily worn.

Of course it's good practice to wear both of these as everybody knows.

it would be polite to inform the guy of this thread to offer him the chance, should he wish, to respond.

It was beginning to read a little like a witch hunt at one point......

Still, proved for a lively debate!

[he must be doing something right though as he's always busy!]

[timw]

Originally Posted by Sixy_the_red

Attempts have been made to contact the operator in question without success, but all the same, attempts have been made.

I hope one of his accusers will eventually contact him to explain what they have been saying on here. After all, plenty of effort was made to find his number...it would be a shame if people commenting on his activities hid behind their computer screens and didn't have the bottle to call him.

Jimbo has said he will try again later this week...await with baited breath.

[codprawn]

Originally Posted by Sixy_the_red

For all the 'pontificating' going on here, I'll tell you what I see. I see a group of (mainly) very experienced and competent helmsmen / commercial operators who have seen something that concerns them (and concerns me too) and are making comment. I don't see Nauti Boy's actions as 'ratting out' a cowboy, I simply see a fellow operator making his concerns known to the proper authorities. Attempts have been made to contact the operator in question without success, but all the same, attempts have been made.

Whether or not his actions are illegal is somewhat of a irrelevence IMO (and quite frankly highlights serious failings in the legislation), his actions are unprofessional, plain and simple. Surely as a coded skipper it is his job to put forward a professional image at all times?

He IS putting life at risk if he is taking people out into open water without life jackets and a killcord and that IMO is wrong.

Now play nicely children or I shall take away all your toys.

You seem to be overlooking the fact that a great many boating operations here and abroad CARRY lifejackets but don't make people wear them - and it's NOT just cross channel ferries either!!!

Just have a look at this for example

http://www.allnewyorktours.com/Body....tour=NYC-W0024

Boats running at 45mph+ and not a lifejacket in sight. Considering the USA is litigation mad if it was such bad prcatice don't you think they would insist?

Also the Sydney Harbour jet ribs don't insist on lifejackets either.

If it was me I would insist on people wearing lifejackets but that doesn't automatically mean that my boats trips would be safer than his.

[Biggles]

Just goes to show,

something I have said about a lot of things, just because its the norm or its the done thing, or thats the way we do it, or its not against the regulations, doesn't mean to say its the right way to do things.

You can bet your bottom dollar that if something was to go disastrously wrong with this operation, as we all probably feel it will one day, or with another operation like this then the Elf'n'safety Nazis will be all over the marine leisure industry like a rash. Possibly with good cause. But from what Nautibouy says although the MCA are aware of their shortcomings with regards regulations, they can't do a lot about it.

Although not exactly the same circumstances does no one remember the poor souls who perished at Lulworth Cove on an organised canoe outing. For all the effort involved in donning a life jacket and a killcord so much could possibly be saved.

And although I don't own/run a pleasure boating outfit I would have thought as a passenger being made to don a lifejacket would have added to the fun/realism of being on a fast scarey little boat. An opportunity missed in one way to promote Ribbing as one of the ultimate sports.

In my opinion the man in charge of that boat is absolute pratt. Even if he's staying in the Cove he should take full and absolute responsibility for his fee paying passengers who just want a bit of fun but will fully expect after paying decent money that they will not be placed in any danger. Because if they are to placed in any danger then they should be made fully aware of that fact. A cove it might be but I bet you I could drown quite easily if thrown in English Sea water in April. I'm a crap swimmer and I don't like cold. And I'm not an OAP or young child who might be most at risk.

Rules are made to be followed by idiots but for the guidance of others.

[Hugh Jardon]

i wonder if he gives the folks a safety briefing before setting off and again offers them to read the notice and if folks want a life jacket then they can be dished out there and then

i have a suspicion that getting everyone kitted out with lifejackets, right sizes, helping people put them on, checking for fitment then people returning them at the end all takes time and takes time out of the day that could be filled with another couple of runs,

time is money!

what price safety?

[timw]

Originally Posted by Biggles

In my opinion the man in charge of that boat is absolute pratt.

Why don't you ring him up and tell him that.

His number is 01929 400 560

Only fair the guy gets a chance to respond to your opinion don't you think?

[John Kennett]

Originally Posted by Biggles

You can bet your bottom dollar that if something was to go disastrously wrong with this operation, as we all probably feel it will one day, or with another operation like this then the Elf'n'safety Nazis will be all over the marine leisure industry like a rash. Possibly with good cause. But from what Nautibouy says although the MCA are aware of their shortcomings with regards regulations, they can't do a lot about it.

What about other "speed boat" rides that you see at the seaside (Padstow and Whitby are two that immediately spring to mind). I don't recall seeing any of them with passengers wearing life jackets. Are they all criminally irresponsible? Or are RIBs inherently more dangerous than conventional speed boats?

Or is it possible that an experienced operator, working in good conditions in local waters, might be able to run acceptably safe RIB trips without insisting on life jackets for all? It wouldn't be my choice, but I'm not convinced that it justifies some of the reactions we've had so far.

John

[jwalker]

Originally Posted by John Kennett

It wouldn't be my choice, but I'm not convinced that it justifies some of the reactions we've had so far.

Snap.

[Lawrence]

Originally Posted by John Kennett

Or is it possible that an experienced operator, working in good conditions in local waters, might be able to run acceptably safe RIB trips without insisting on life jackets for all? It wouldn't be my choice, but I'm not convinced that it justifies some of the reactions we've had so far.

John

Yeah, I agree as well. This "cowboy" is running his business as he thinks fit, within the coding requirements and without mishap. I think he has the right to do so. I might choose to do it differently, that's my right as well. By all means discuss best practice but hey, it's a free country (just).

[Biggles]

Sorry,

But for the length of time it takes to put a life jacket on then this is the minimum that should be done.

And if you don't agree with that then fine, but then tell me why you fine fellows always wear one when your on your own RIB.

We know it doesn't happen every time but it might and thats why we wear the life jackets. No different to a seatbelt. You've got it so use it.

Now if people were ranting and raving about the fact he didn't have a life raft or everyone didn't have their own VHF or flare then that would be daft. But lifejackets have just got to be the most basic thing you wear on a small boat. As I said before just like a seatbelt in a car or a helmet on a motorbike. the bare minimum.

They aren't made for fun. They are a serious item and made to save lives.

Next person step forward please !!!!

[Biggles]

Originally Posted by John Kennett

What about other "speed boat" rides that you see at the seaside (Padstow and Whitby are two that immediately spring to mind). I don't recall seeing any of them with passengers wearing life jackets. Are they all criminally irresponsible? Or are RIBs inherently more dangerous than conventional speed boats?

John

Doesn't mean what they are doing is right.

[Biggles]

Originally Posted by timw

Why don't you ring him up and tell him that.

His number is 01929 400 560

Only fair the guy gets a chance to respond to your opinion don't you think?

So if you know him why haven't you got him on here to answer the countless criticisms ?