Harmonised Codes

foxdog · 19 December 2004, 18:56

I've seen mention in other threads of people not being able to sit on the tubes but can not find it in the new harmonised code. Can someone point out the section please? I have noticed Underdeck fuel tanks are out ! Replaced by on deck jetisonable fuel containers with Max 27 litres of fuel Maybe people can sit on the 4 or 5 of these you will have to carry?

Pete7 · 19 December 2004, 21:08

I think you will find under deck fuel tanks are allowed providing you have an outboard. It was inboard petrol engines they throw a wobbly about because of the fire risk. Thankfully mines heavy oil

Can't remember which bit covers sitting on tubes but its 168 pages so the works printer might get a hammering at some point.

Pete

foxdog · 19 December 2004, 21:42

Hi Pete

The way it reads to me from 7.1.2.3 is that under deck fuel tanks are no longer allowed . Not a problem if you are already coded but a major one if you are having a rib built with one at the moment with the intention of coding it. Your right about the code I should really print it out but would have to take out a second morgage to cover the Hewlett Packard ink.

Pete7 · 20 December 2004, 11:09

The rules for fuel tanks are 7.3.1.2 but you need to read the definition of an inflatable because the way I read it, "inflatables" doesn't apply to you (see page 22).

Struggling to find the bit about not sitting on tubes, the only reference I can find is 22.6 (page 91) but it seems a little vague.

Assuming the new rules come out then I would expect HMSO to publish them in a book which might be the cheaper option rather than printing 148 pages and any amendments.

https://mcanet.mcga.gov.uk/public/c4...%20Annex_1.pdf

Pete

foxdog · 20 December 2004, 17:14

Thankyou for pointing out page 22 I had missed the definition of an inflatable

quinquarimarine · 20 December 2004, 22:31

You are quite right that there is no specific point relating to sitting on the tubes.

However in a later more general section there refers to the resposibility to ensure a safe position for all PAX. Now most of us know that in many circumstances the best position is on the tube.

However, and again only our opinion, when stood before His Honour, following a MOB to fatal incident the knowledge of a jurry will lend towards that a safe position is within the boat and not on the tubes. You obviously can counter with statistics etc but would the MOB of occured with inboard seats .. No !

Our policy on our own operation and aour advice to purchasers of our boats is to go for both inboard and tube seating ie. setaing inboard for 12 plus tube handles for 12. In any weather then inboard seating is dictated by the skipper and no one small or young who cannot sit on the tubes but cannot touch the floor should be on the tubes.

In case of accident we would show our transparent policy and above all that we had identified a risk and taken measures accordingly. Then back it up with evidence of hundreds of thousands of people been on our sailings having used the tubes with no incident. ie. we would attempt to demonstrate a genuine accident cum act of God rather than negligence.

If we operated without internal seating for all then I guess we would demonstrate risk control by limiting operating area/speed/weather. Alternatively foot holds etc could be an option.

Cheers

John
www.quinquari.co.uk

David Hickman · 21 December 2004, 18:51

I have seating for 6 but coded for 8. No problem as so as enough hand holds for those on the tubes. Take a dive rib for example who may only have a single jockey steering console. Everyone else will sit on the tubes. It would a good idea to do a risk assessment yourself and present it to the surveyor reference sitting on the tubes. (I.E. will dry suits or wet suits be worn? etc)
John Fearnley at Mecal Plymouth is A1, very helpful and sensible but thorough.

codprawn · 23 December 2004, 11:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by quinquarimarine

You are quite right that there is no specific point relating to sitting on the tubes.

However in a later more general section there refers to the resposibility to ensure a safe position for all PAX. Now most of us know that in many circumstances the best position is on the tube.

However, and again only our opinion, when stood before His Honour, following a MOB to fatal incident the knowledge of a jurry will lend towards that a safe position is within the boat and not on the tubes. You obviously can counter with statistics etc but would the MOB of occured with inboard seats .. No !

Our policy on our own operation and aour advice to purchasers of our boats is to go for both inboard and tube seating ie. setaing inboard for 12 plus tube handles for 12. In any weather then inboard seating is dictated by the skipper and no one small or young who cannot sit on the tubes but cannot touch the floor should be on the tubes.

In case of accident we would show our transparent policy and above all that we had identified a risk and taken measures accordingly. Then back it up with evidence of hundreds of thousands of people been on our sailings having used the tubes with no incident. ie. we would attempt to demonstrate a genuine accident cum act of God rather than negligence.

If we operated without internal seating for all then I guess we would demonstrate risk control by limiting operating area/speed/weather. Alternatively foot holds etc could be an option.

Cheers

John
www.quinquari.co.uk

Was it one of your boats that capsised a few years ago? From what I have read all people were thrown clear and no serious injuries - maybe if they had been sitting on proper seats more people would have been trapped or injured by striking hard objects.

Rogue Wave · 24 December 2004, 10:21

Heres the report my understanding is that Quinquarrel Marine bought the company after the accident. Interesting point in the review about the liferafts being stowed, I tend to do that but I gues thay gonna be going on deck from now on.

codprawn · 24 December 2004, 17:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rogue Wave

Heres the report my understanding is that Quinquarrel Marine bought the company after the accident. Interesting point in the review about the liferafts being stowed, I tend to do that but I gues thay gonna be going on deck from now on.

Just shows how pointless a liferaft is on a RIB!!!

Apparently they weren't required until the small boatmans association or similar complained because THEY had to carry them!!!

Rogue Wave · 24 December 2004, 19:36

I heard that also. I feel the reason you carry them is in case the rib catches fire.

Some of our boats are coded and some are running on local licences. The Pompey harbourmaster doesn't require a liferaft if you have grab ropes fitted along the outside of the tubes.

quinquarimarine · 27 December 2004, 13:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by codprawn

Was it one of your boats that capsised a few years ago? From what I have read all people were thrown clear and no serious injuries - maybe if they had been sitting on proper seats more people would have been trapped or injured by striking hard objects.

CP, no it was not one of our vessels. The point of the people being sat on the tubes is a very good one and I think was a key element in the survival rate of the PAX. My opinion is that the skipper and the vessel should be commended for recovering all from a serious position.

We had operated under the Voyages Of Discovery name in competition to TIEx for about 12 years and by 2002 were carring nearly two times more passengers than TIEx. The sale of TIEx enbaled us to operate under the TIEx name as well as the VOD name thus increasing pax numbers again.

The original TIEx boats were Ocean Dynamics which are well known as very able craft. However we did not engage these for the new TIEx company as we felt that our own vessels were more suitable for our own need and company ethos.

All the boats that we use for the RHIB sailings of VOD and TIEX are Quinquari Marine, a company that we also own. Further expansion is underway with a second Quinquari Marine base shortly to open on the West Coast of Scotland suppling turnkey commercial RHIb packages for the northern market. Details will be announced in Jan.

Cheers

John
www.quinquari.co.uk

codprawn · 27 December 2004, 19:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by quinquarimarine

CP, no it was not one of our vessels. The point of the people being sat on the tubes is a very good one and I think was a key element in the survival rate of the PAX. My opinion is that the skipper and the vessel should be commended for recovering all from a serious position.

We had operated under the Voyages Of Discovery name in competition to TIEx for about 12 years and by 2002 were carring nearly two times more passengers than TIEx. The sale of TIEx enbaled us to operate under the TIEx name as well as the VOD name thus increasing pax numbers again.

Cheers

John
www.quinquari.co.uk

Couldn't agree more - when I read the accident report it was mainly full or praise - in particular the supply of canoe style helmets - great idea!!!

i would how many other styles of boat would survive a capsize with no casualties?