Commercial Endorsement 2005?

[marknj]

Does anyone know when the new exam/test for the commercial endorsement will come into play 1st Jan, 1st April? Also what will the costs be and what will it involve?

Many thanks,
Mark.

[tim griffin]

Originally Posted by marknj

Does anyone know when the new exam/test for the commercial endorsement will come into play 1st Jan, 1st April? Also what will the costs be and what will it involve?

Many thanks,
Mark.

1st of Jan effective you must have your advanced certificate and then you will be examined by either a powerboat trainer or yachtmaster examiner you will have to book this via the RYA as the current yachtmaster scheme works at the moment around the £150 mark content of the exam will be down to the examiner personaly i would go for a trainer as he /she will be more current with the syllabus you will not be asked to do anything that is not in your logbook however it is an exam so high standard will be required also there will be a written theory test this is from the last instructors update i saw so i could be abit behind on this drop Paul Glatzel or Dave Hickman a pm as they are both trainers who use this forum
hope it helps regards

[Simon Hawkins]

Tim.

My understanding is that if you have already got your Advanced ticket prior to 1st January then the RYA will commercialy endorse this, subject to having the sea survival and medical. For those who are taking the Advanced after 1st January 2005 then they will have to take a written exam for the commercial endorsement.

Simon

[tim griffin]

Originally Posted by Simon Hawkins

Tim.

My understanding is that if you have already got your Advanced ticket prior to 1st January then the RYA will commercialy endorse this, subject to having the sea survival and medical. For those who are taking the Advanced after 1st January 2005 then they will have to take a written exam for the commercial endorsement.

Simon

Yes and no
yes if you have already got your advanced and sea survival and medical
and no if you are going to do it after this date there is as far as i can remember a practical and theory exam i am sure Paul or Dave will be able to clear it up as they are RYA Trainers, the Principles Conference is in November and it is on the agenda also its the first time Principles from the Motor Cruising Section who wish to examine The New Advanced Certificate of Competence will be there and various workshops are on the agenda so maybe a better answer can be given after this date .any one going from down South can i Blag a lift.

[Simon Hawkins]

Tim

That is exactly what I was getting at, perhaps not worded clearly enough. I am quiet now so will have to go out on the boats sometime.

[Paul Glatzel]

The way it will work is (as i understand it):

• 1st Jan onwards Advanced Certificate remains as is. However Advanced Certificates issued post 1st Jan cannot be commercially endorsed.

• Those seeking to Commercially Endorse at Advanced Level will need to take an "Advanced Exam" (my title). This will be c6 hours split between theory and practical.

• Bookings will be via the RYA website, Trainers & Examiners will be made aware of bookings and advise the RYA they are available - i don't see there is a way to choose between Trainers or Examiners - nor any particular benefit. By definition (in terms of the way bookings are made) therefore you couldn't choose who examines you

• Trainers have all been asked whether they wish to become Examiners, there is a meeting at the Principals Conference to educate & discuss

• Perhaps i misunderstand Tim's post but the implication is that Motor Cruising Principals can examine as above. Given that Principals are not always particulalry experienced (in some cases it is the Chief Instructor that is the well qualified one) i cannot see this would be so.

Think that covers it

Paul

[tim griffin]

Originally Posted by Paul Glatzel

• Perhaps i misunderstand Tim's post but the implication is that Motor Cruising Principals can examine as above. Given that Principals are not always particulalry experienced (in some cases it is the Chief Instructor that is the well qualified one) i cannot see this would be so.

Paul

Sorry Paul should read that the Motor Cruising Principals are invited to the
power conference and YACHTMASTER EXAMINERS will be able to examine the commercial endorsement.

[marknj]

Many thanks, I take it the same will apply for commercial endorsement of Yacht Master (Power)?
Thanks again,
Mark.

[Paul Glatzel]

Many thanks, I take it the same will apply for commercial endorsement of Yacht Master (Power)?

Well it already does really, Yachtmaster is an examined rather than certificated course. If you achieve Yachtmaster then you can go ahead and commercially endorse.

What is likely to happen is that Powerboat schools will copy the approach of motor/sail schools and offer "Advanced Exam Preparation" courses in the run up to someone undertaking their "Advanced Exam"

Paul

[tim griffin]

Do you see this as making the advanced course more expensive if they have to be examined or are you refering to the commercial aspect of the course only
regards Tim

[Paul Glatzel]

Do you see this as making the advanced course more expensive if they have to be examined or are you referring to the commercial aspect of the course only
regards Tim

I think the two things are distinct. I suppose an individual now has more choices depending on what they want to do:

• Take the Advanced Course leading to an Advanced Certificate. As stated this cannot be endorsed. This is as it is already and is the logical approach for someone keen to further their skills and experience.

Commercial users have three options as I see it:

1. Take the ‘exam’
2. Take their Advanced Certificate as a precursor to the exam, then do the exam.
3. Spend time with a school ‘training’ for the exam. This may or may not include the actual Advanced Course.

Clearly individuals will take their own view as to what serves them best but I suspect option 3 will appeal for individuals without Dayskipper Theory (or equivalent knowledge) as they need to be up to speed such that they can handle questions from the Dayskipper Theory exam with ease. Schools will spend time therefore with some people in a mini Dayskipper Theory type course helping them up to the level ahead of their assessment.

On balance I don’t think it will make much difference for schools financially. Whereas previously everyone who wanted the commercial endorsement took the Advanced Certificate now they have more options one of which doesn’t involve a school at all. Clearly only someone who is going to use the Commercial Endorsement will go to the effort needed to acquire it and I suspect people will divide fairly equally between the 3 options.

Ultimately what counts here is that these changes ensure that those that get Commercially Endorsed are very capable of being so. Equally, at a stroke School’s positions are easier as whilst someone may reach the standard for their Advanced Certificate they may not necessarily be at the level you would want them to be to take fee paying passengers out. This has always been a difficult area for Advanced Instructors.

Paul

[David Hickman]

Your last paragraph is a common area with me. Yes the adv pupils can do everything in the syllabus well but would I want them taking my rib out with paying passengers on board??

Sounds like a discussion Paul when we meet up at the end of the month of how it will all work.

Are you going the Coventry Tim to the conference?

Sorry I have not contributed earlier, been in Hospital for hernia op.

[tim griffin]

Hi Dave does not look as though i will be able to make it to Coventry as working shame, would like to hear first hand from you and Paul about what has been on the agenda and forums if you could drop me an email that would be great, as i see it from Pauls reply it is a good way foward on the commercial endorsement side of things and the 3 levels option to the students will be better its just how schools tailor the package do you think it would make sense to have a syllabus to cover this or do you think schools should be given the freedom to have a free hand in course content .running a mini Dayskipper course is not a bad idea for the work up course and perhaps a refresh on firstaid and vhf to be included also insurance and codeing for the commercial aspect
cheers

[marknj]

Thanks again for all your replys. I'm quite relieved as I would have struggled to get the time off to get the Yachtmaster practical done this side of christmass.

Cheers
Mark

[Simon Hawkins]

Originally Posted by marknj

Thanks again for all your replys. I'm quite relieved as I would have struggled to get the time off to get the Yachtmaster practical done this side of christmass.

Cheers
Mark

Bear in mind for the future that if you want to do your yachtmaster practical exam then you will need a minimum of 2,500 miles and your miles from Ribs/Sportsboats dont count.

[marknj]

Thanks should be ok as I spent 10yrs as a fishery officer, most as rib coxwain also delivered one of the old patrol vessels from Cornwall to Largs in Scotland. Did the Atlantic 21 coxwains course several years ago, just before it was RYA endorsed , and we were all told that they would not back-date them even though the content hadn't changed. Capsize and beaching (at 20knts) drills were great fun

[scm]

Bear in mind for the future that if you want to do your yachtmaster practical exam then you will need a minimum of 2,500 miles and your miles from Ribs/Sportsboats dont count.


Sorry Simon, but did i miss something? Do they count now?
Stuart

[Simon Hawkins]

Originally Posted by scm

Sorry Simon, but did i miss something? Do they count now?
Stuart

No they dont stuart.

[tim griffin]

coming back to this , last years conference discussed the need for guidance notes for the candidate and examiner, and Pre exam experience 60 hours 8 night hours , 16 hours as skipper 250 miles in varying conditions within the last 5 years similar to coastal skipper , also talk of revalidating Advanced Instructors , it will be intersting to see what comes out of this years conference

[Simon Hawkins]

For all of you in doubt what the new regulation is to be then here it is.

From January 2005 there will be a new system for obtaining a commercial Advanced Powerboat certificate.

Until the end of this year it is possible to commercially endorse any Advanced certificate regardless of whether it was obtained by doing a course or a direct assessment.

From January 2005 this will change: No Advanced course completion certificates issued after 1 st January 2005 will be commercially endorsed. Any new candidates for commercially endorsed Advanced certificates will require an exam. However, course completion certificates issued prior to 1 st January 2005 may be endorsed.

Exams will commence in January 2005 and will follow the same system that has been operated for commercial Yachtmasters and Coastal Skippers since the Codes of Practice were first introduced. The pre-requisite experience and qualifications for Advanced exam candidates will be as follows:

• Minimum 2 years relevant experience including night pilotage (as a guide: 30 days, 2 days as skipper, 800 miles, 12 night hours). For holders of the RYA Advanced powerboat course completion certificate this seatime is reduced to: 20 days, 2 days as skipper, 400 miles, 12 night hours).
• VHF/SRC operator’s licence
• Valid first aid certificate