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Old 07 March 2023, 19:16   #1
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Advanced PB certificate prerequisites

Hi,

Im looking at the possibility of fast tracking to a PB Advanced exam to commercially endorse.

Reason: Water safety for swim events in sea and similar events where support for swimmers may be required. Will need to be able to be more than 20miles from NDP.

I don't have experience, and am looking at first doing PB2 course and other required quals such as sea survival etc. I can of course get commercially endorsed with PB2, but it limits me to 3miles and doesnt get me to the places where I would be required to operate.

Question: To do the advanced exam and be commercially endorsed, Is the pre-req of 400miles, 12 nights and 20 days (with completed advanced PB course) all mandatory requirements, or just a guide? Obviously without competency I would not pass exam, but could I fast-track these pre-reqs as long as I am competent? Is it more "suggested" experience?

If it is mandatory, how is this logged if I am doing the hours in a private non-commercial boat?

Many Thanks!
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Old 07 March 2023, 20:12   #2
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They are required. I think you can log that however you like but there is space( or used to be anyway) in you pb2 book. It sounds a bit like your asking ‘ how can I sit this exam without the experience’? You need the experience for good reason. This will qualify you to be responsible for up to 12(plus one crew) people’s life’s on the water on a boat up to 24 mtrs( depending on experience). You cannot have the competence without the experience. APB commercially endorsed is only 20 miles from NDP anyway. You would need yachtmaster offshore(60 miles).
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Old 07 March 2023, 21:19   #3
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Yes, not questioning the fact it's needed, and for the right reasons... just questioning how strict the logging is... and I'm an hour here or there its not a massive deal.

I only need -20 from shore, advanced is perfect. Typo on original post.
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Old 07 March 2023, 23:00   #4
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I have no idea for APB. I know people who were YM instructors and they tell me you can tell if someone has imagined/exaggerated their hours.

The RYA concept would be you do PB2, Intermediate, Advanced and then Advanced Exam. They expect most people to put a year between those. Obviously someone with suitable experience could just go to advanced. But don't expect a training centre to refund you if you fail!

If you are swimming 12 mi off shore and need assistance, do you want the guy who did the bare minimum to get his ticket or the guy who has been doing stuff 10 years and could drive up to you blind folded?
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Old 08 March 2023, 07:28   #5
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Yes, not questioning the fact it's needed, and for the right reasons... just questioning how strict the logging is... and I'm an hour here or there its not a massive deal.



I only need -20 from shore, advanced is perfect. Typo on original post.

Reason for the reply was you said ‘I don’t have any experience’. I would say normally you’d have done your pb2 a period of time prior to APB and ideally with same instructor so they’d know your history anyway. Logging isn’t that strict but if you don’t have the experience you’ll likely be found out on the course prior to exam. Don’t underestimate the knowledge required for course and exam. For example Yachtmaster offshore theory level knowledge. Go for it though if you feel you have sufficient experience. I would say though what you want it for is nearer the extreme end of APB qualification limits. Imagine 20 miles offshore with a swimmer suddenly becoming seriously ill and your boat decides to stop working. Experience will tell.
Great course though
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Old 08 March 2023, 14:08   #6
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I appreciate the responses, and should have expected the usual amount of forum flack.

To clear a couple of things up... we wont be swimming 12miles from shore... it would be point to points near to shore in favourable weather. The 20 miles however, is necessary as the spots that I would be operating are more than 3 miles down the coast from the NDP. There are plenty of "Safe Havens" nearby.

Regarding "no experience"... I should have also mentioned I am a beach lifeguard, a sea-swim guide, and very experienced sea swimmer, and operating in waters that I know intimately, onshore and offshore. The lack of experience was with regards to the boat handling aspect.

Of course, I understand the very real implications of dangers at sea, and it is not my intention to go all "Gung Ho"... I am merely looking at another avenue to expand my already well established business, and questioning the timeframe / pre-reqs. Again, this is not because my plan is to ignore them, just to understand them.

Sea time after a successful PB2 would be plentiful in my own time... and I certainly wouldn't be diving in without experience, competence and confidence.

The main questions were asked, perhaps without the relevant background information... so I appreciate the concern.

so... the answers to the questions from what I gather,

- Is that the hours / time mentioned are "Guidance" rather than law...

- If I can muster up enough experience / competence in a shorter time than a year between each course, this should also be fine as long as the experience shows and the examiner is satisfied. (I also know an RYA examiner / tutor so this can be confirmed by them prior to any exams).

- The logging of hours is down to myself.

Correct?
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Old 08 March 2023, 14:09   #7
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Reason for the reply was you said ‘I don’t have any experience’. I would say normally you’d have done your pb2 a period of time prior to APB and ideally with same instructor so they’d know your history anyway. Logging isn’t that strict but if you don’t have the experience you’ll likely be found out on the course prior to exam. Don’t underestimate the knowledge required for course and exam. For example Yachtmaster offshore theory level knowledge. Go for it though if you feel you have sufficient experience. I would say though what you want it for is nearer the extreme end of APB qualification limits. Imagine 20 miles offshore with a swimmer suddenly becoming seriously ill and your boat decides to stop working. Experience will tell.
Great course though
Thanks... Doing the courses is an exciting prospect for me... I'm a fiend for information. I think its been a long time coming...
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Old 08 March 2023, 14:12   #8
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Originally Posted by ShinyShoe View Post
I have no idea for APB. I know people who were YM instructors and they tell me you can tell if someone has imagined/exaggerated their hours.

The RYA concept would be you do PB2, Intermediate, Advanced and then Advanced Exam. They expect most people to put a year between those. Obviously someone with suitable experience could just go to advanced. But don't expect a training centre to refund you if you fail!

If you are swimming 12 mi off shore and need assistance, do you want the guy who did the bare minimum to get his ticket or the guy who has been doing stuff 10 years and could drive up to you blind folded?
I think I'm aiming to be the guy who has enough confidence, competence and experience to start a new aspect to his (already sea-based) business within a reasonable timeframe and carry on building in a positive way from there.
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Old 08 March 2023, 19:41   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tumbleweed View Post
I appreciate the responses, and should have expected the usual amount of forum flack.



To clear a couple of things up... we wont be swimming 12miles from shore... it would be point to points near to shore in favourable weather. The 20 miles however, is necessary as the spots that I would be operating are more than 3 miles down the coast from the NDP. There are plenty of "Safe Havens" nearby.



Regarding "no experience"... I should have also mentioned I am a beach lifeguard, a sea-swim guide, and very experienced sea swimmer, and operating in waters that I know intimately, onshore and offshore. The lack of experience was with regards to the boat handling aspect.



Of course, I understand the very real implications of dangers at sea, and it is not my intention to go all "Gung Ho"... I am merely looking at another avenue to expand my already well established business, and questioning the timeframe / pre-reqs. Again, this is not because my plan is to ignore them, just to understand them.



Sea time after a successful PB2 would be plentiful in my own time... and I certainly wouldn't be diving in without experience, competence and confidence.



The main questions were asked, perhaps without the relevant background information... so I appreciate the concern.



so... the answers to the questions from what I gather,



- Is that the hours / time mentioned are "Guidance" rather than law...



- If I can muster up enough experience / competence in a shorter time than a year between each course, this should also be fine as long as the experience shows and the examiner is satisfied. (I also know an RYA examiner / tutor so this can be confirmed by them prior to any exams).



- The logging of hours is down to myself.



Correct?


I think correct apart from the guidance bit. That time is genuinely down as the minimum, there’s two minimums one is a reduced one if you do the 2 day APB Course. Of course this assumes a bit of honesty on the self declaration. Go for it it’s a fun path with a lot of learning on the route. Your right in the sense it can be ‘accelerated’ providing you have the time and opportunity to get the hours on the water. You can’t really learn it without the hours put in. On the theory side the RYA books are pretty good. Some good apps out there now for training too.
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Old 08 March 2023, 21:51   #10
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Excellent... thanks for the input! Its a daunting but exciting prospect... and an excuse to start looking at boats!
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Old 10 March 2023, 00:34   #11
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The sea-time is a requirement, not optional. It is not a guide

In our experience someone with only 400 miles and 20 days boating is going to find the Advanced COC tough, it is not impossible if they have had structured training but i have seen plenty fail with a lot more experience than that.
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