Royal Navy removed search and rescue divers from Ops

[Poly]

Originally Posted by ian parkes

Make em pay . If they need a rescue because they get cut off by the tide or do something stupid .

As for the helicopter Iam not kocking the local air ambulance they do a fine job , but last year one of my nieghbours broke his leg in the snow on the moors at the top of our village . I was doing my best to keep him warm etc but it took nearly an hour to get the helicopter there becuse they couldn't fly in the poor weather , ie heavy snow . he ended up with hypothermia , but a worse injury could have resulted in death.
If the private services are unable to fly for similar reasons then the rescue capability will be compromised . Nothing seems to stop the forces from flying , Iam not criticising thier ability but regulations and rules are often too strict .

Ian - the problem with charging for rescue services is that it puts people off calling for help - so instead of calling the CG and getting a professional rescue at an early stage people wait until things spiral out of control (or become too late all together).

And as for flying in adverse weather - there are certainly some conditions when even the RAF/RN helis cannot opperate. But the main helicopter rescue services for the western isles, and the shetlands are operated by the CG's private contractor - and I haven't heard any criticism of them being restricted unnecessarily by weather.

[MikeCC]

Signed

Not sure I'll ever understand public sector spending priorities . . .

[chris123]

Originally Posted by ian parkes

As for the helicopter Iam not kocking the local air ambulance they do a fine job , but last year one of my nieghbours broke his leg in the snow on the moors at the top of our village . I was doing my best to keep him warm etc but it took nearly an hour to get the helicopter there becuse they couldn't fly in the poor weather , ie heavy snow . he ended up with hypothermia , but a worse injury could have resulted in death.
If the private services are unable to fly for similar reasons then the rescue capability will be compromised . Nothing seems to stop the forces from flying , Iam not criticising thier ability but regulations and rules are often too strict .

A lot of this may be down to the helicopter - all the air ambulances I have seen have been small / lightweight 'commercial' helicopters - I would imagine the operational envelope on this type of helo will be considerably smaller than that for the 'military spec' helicopters flown by the RN, RAF and CG.

Chris

[codprawn]

Originally Posted by chris123

A lot of this may be down to the helicopter - all the air ambulances I have seen have been small / lightweight 'commercial' helicopters - I would imagine the operational envelope on this type of helo will be considerably smaller than that for the 'military spec' helicopters flown by the RN, RAF and CG.

Chris

It is down to the fact the air ambulance service is a charity with very little funding. Of course they manage to find money for Police helicopters that are a total waste of time. We do NOT have many cities like Los Angeles and yet they find the need to copy the Yanks as usual.

Police helicopters cost millions to run and yet what good are they - chasing a joyrider in a car worth £200 doesn't make much sense.

I know someone who used to fly on one of the Welsh Police helicopters and believe me the number of serious incidence they are used on is tiny - and yet every hour they are in the air they cost us £5,000 - that would provide a lot more coppers on the ground where they are really needed.......

[Poly]

Originally Posted by codprawn

Police helicopters cost millions to run and yet what good are they - chasing a joyrider in a car worth £200 doesn't make much sense.

Yes but a £200 car being driven by someone at high speed and probably with little regard for anyone else is likely to kill someone in the end...

...unfettered joy riders will continue to nick cars every night until its either your car that gets nicked/damaged or your loved one that gets hurt/killed.

[Pete7]

Afraid the cuts in the RN go deaper than just the SAR lads. They are now removing dive teams from ships. So if a warship gets a net around the props or rudders then its off to the nearest port and call out a commerical diving contractor to sort it out

Pete

[codprawn]

Originally Posted by Polwart

Yes but a £200 car being driven by someone at high speed and probably with little regard for anyone else is likely to kill someone in the end...

...unfettered joy riders will continue to nick cars every night until its either your car that gets nicked/damaged or your loved one that gets hurt/killed.

They tend not to do that unless they are being chased. Joyriding is rapidly dying out. There are very few of the older cars left on the roads now and they can't nick the new ones unless they get hold of the keys.

Swansea used to be the car crime capital of the UK. Car theft is now down by a huge amount - of course the local Police and council claim all the credit but it's down to the better immobilisers etc. One of my best mates used to be an autoelectrician and he reckons very few cars made after 1998 are nickable. Even with the correct wiring diagrams and a well equipped workshop it can take 8 hours to get around some of the security systems.

I used to go mountain biking around the regular Swansea dumping ground - the sort of cars that turn up there are things like Metros - old Astras and Fiestas - old Escorts and even a Volvo 240 estate - you just don't see many cars like that around any more!!!

[codprawn]

Originally Posted by Pete7

Afraid the cuts in the RN go deaper than just the SAR lads. They are now removing dive teams from ships. So if a warship gets a net around the props or rudders then its off to the nearest port and call out a commerical diving contractor to sort it out

Pete

Are you serious? That is insane. What happens if a rudder jams or worse a launch capsizes during ship to ship transfer? People die!!!

[Simon B]

Saving money is ok but it does lead to skills not being retained. Eventually you end up with a service that is not fit for purpose...it's all sounding so familiar.

Contarcting out to civilains again ok, but there isnt a remit for them to go to war. Nor is there the backup of equipment in reserve, though I do doubt now how much kit we have in reserve.

Time for Gordon to prove us all wrong with actions not words

[wavelength]

at the end of the day many of the cg aircrew are ex military and they are all highly trained-they dont just employ copter pilots who have trained to fly a taxi service back and forth to oil rigs all day long. Has anybody any actual complaints or criticisms of how the current CG helicopters have been run? Or any instances where their commitment/bravery/skill/performance has been called into question? I doubt it.

[donutsina911]

Originally Posted by Pete7

Afraid the cuts in the RN go deaper than just the SAR lads. They are now removing dive teams from ships. So if a warship gets a net around the props or rudders then its off to the nearest port and call out a commerical diving contractor to sort it out

Pete

not strictly true - if a ship needs diving support outside of a base port, the first option is to call on one of the mobile, on call fleet diving teams. If this proves impossible or impractical, then civilian contractors are used.