Oh. Sh*t. Holyhead Marina. 80 boats sink.

[Nos4r2]

Storm Emma smashes boats at Holyhead marina, Anglesey - BBC News

[The Black Pig]

There will be questions asked to the marina

[jambo]

Really really sad!

[Xk59D]

As long as no one injured it is only metal and fibreglass.

I'm sure the insurance companies will be having a time trying to aportion blame somewhere though.

[The Black Pig]

In cases such as this Would you have to claim through your own insurance or maybe a blanket marina policy?

[Xk59D]

Unless the marina are found negligent you are claiming your own.

[spartacus]

Originally Posted by Xk59D

As long as no one injured it is only metal and fibreglass.

I'm sure the insurance companies will be having a time trying to aportion blame somewhere though.

Second that.

That's what insurance is for. Anyone concerned enough would have looked to retrieve their boat (assuming they were around).

[Poly]

Originally Posted by The Black Pig

There will be questions asked to the marina

Have I missed something? What did the marina not do that it should have?

[willk]

Originally Posted by Poly

What did the marina not do that it should have?

It didn't stay were they left it!

[The Black Pig]

Originally Posted by Poly

Have I missed something? What did the marina not do that it should have?

If I were any insurance company on either side I would be asking what the marina did or didn’t do and fully examine all possibilities to enable this not to go to court

[Xk59D]

Originally Posted by The Black Pig

If I were any insurance company on either side I would be asking what the marina did or didn’t do and fully examine all possibilities to enable this not to go to court

There may well be a case for negligence if the piles were not deep enough or chains if used not being checked often enough or something like that but as the boat owner you claim your insurance and they fight that battle if they think there is something not right.

The bigger question could be how many boats were not insured as it is winter and whilst not impossible to get year round cover I wonder how many have it, some people may find they no longer have a boat and no insurance to get another. I don't know that marina but I only know of 1 marina round my way that won't let you on the premises without seeing your insurance certificate, Cameron house marina. Luckily I didn't have it on me when I was on the loch and fancied keeping boat in overnight, I found out it was 85 quid per day for the rib if I did go in.

[The Black Pig]

My understanding is the marina has a duty of care up to a point but you might find a force Majuere clause

[willk]

Originally Posted by The Black Pig

Dumb...

Did you forget what you were going to say?

Footage from last year, same marina:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pUAwFT9liNk

Overview:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cJ3F4fOm5e4

This time:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aZQK-EkSFA8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1m-UD7y2j7k

Having seen the previous "storms" I certainly wouldn't have left my boat there without a plan for heavy weather. Looks like a chained structure that wasn't man enough for the job in just too exposed a location. A piled structure might survive but TBH, I think it's just too much fixed weight in too heavy a sea. Moorings for me!

[Xk59D]

Originally Posted by The Black Pig

My understanding is the marina has a duty of care up to a point but you might find a force Majuere clause

Yes they do have a duty of care but winter and 80mph winds I'm not sure what else they could do? What would you expect? The only thing they could do is haul all the boats out but what happens if they broke it while doing that....vicious circle

[The Black Pig]

Maybe just big business, you can build a marina in an exposed position, but if it not fit for purpose does that mean the unsuspecting public should foot the bill for an uninsured boat if it comes to pass the marina is at fault?

[willk]

Originally Posted by The Black Pig

Maybe just big business, you can build a marina in an exposed position, but if it not fit for purpose does that mean the unsuspecting public should foot the bill for an uninsured boat if it comes to pass the marina is at fault?

In broad terms I agree with your thinking. I'm told that there/their/they're are very precise formulae for determining this sort of thing. They use recorded wave data over a period of time and extrapolate 100 year events or somesuch thing. Basically if the possible wave heights and forces in a worst case scenario are above the design limts it shouldn't be there. That marina looked like a summer pontoon situation to me. Overberthed too with a lot of heavy boats in there. Our local chained pontoon was inverted by a yacht's lines during a summer squall - the forces are immense.

[Xk59D]

Originally Posted by The Black Pig

Maybe just big business, you can build a marina in an exposed position, but if it not fit for purpose does that mean the unsuspecting public should foot the bill for an uninsured boat if it comes to pass the marina is at fault?

If the marina is negligent you should be covered by their policy. But with the weather proving it will be difficult and the old force majeure will likely kick In.

This is no different from leaving your boat ashore and it stolen, the marina has a duty of care but if they have done all that is reasonable then you are claiming your own insurance.

However, if you are a boat owner with no insurance and leaving afloat for the winter then you are taking a massive risk, that marina looks very exposed so insured or not I wouldn't be leaving it in the water there if I had a choice.

[goearth]

Holyhead is very exposed. Very sad for all concerned - boat owners, the marina, marina staff etc.

My boat is at Conwy - fortunately, that is far more sheltered than Holyhead, and everything seems OK there. It simply looks like the location of Holyhead was the issue

[Poly]

Originally Posted by The Black Pig

does that mean the unsuspecting public

Even if everything else you wrote was true I can imagine some interesting legal argument about whether a “yachtsman” could really be regarded as unsuspecting public; there could be a reasonable assumption of seamanship from those who own and keep a vessel afloat. Even more so if there is signage or t&cs which clearly highlight that the marina is not sheltered in every condition.

[The Black Pig]

Originally Posted by Poly

Even if everything else you wrote was true I can imagine some interesting legal argument about whether a “yachtsman” could really be regarded as unsuspecting public; there could be a reasonable assumption of seamanship from those who own and keep a vessel afloat. Even more so if there is signage or t&cs which clearly highlight that the marina is not sheltered in every condition.

Seems like any egit can buy a boat/ yacht though and call themselves a yachtsman