Morally Wrong - Surely

[Nauti Buoy]

We have just found out today that a large customer of ours "Limited Company" went into administration on Thursday afternoon, owing us somewhere in the region of £19,780 inc vat. They are now set up from the same premises again as a new outfit, different name, all the same staff and the liquidators say it is perfectly legal, oh and we may not see a penny of our debt.

Is it me or is there something very wrong in this.

[Andy Gee]

Originally Posted by Nauti Buoy

We have just found out today that a large customer of ours "Limited Company" went into administration on Thursday afternoon, owing us somewhere in the region of £19,780 inc vat. They are now set up from the same premises again as a new outfit, different name, all the same staff and the liquidators say it is perfectly legal, oh and we may not see a penny of our debt.

Is it me or is there something very wrong in this.

Been there. been stung with that client went bust on a Friday owing around £489k to various sub-contractors ( £16k to us), transfered all assest over to his wife, somthing to do with ownership, and opened again the following Wednesday. Needless to say he lasted about 6 months and went bust again this time owing around £180k.
At least you can look forward to getting around 1p in the £ back...........if you lucky
Chin Up
Andy

[Mark Halliday]

Sorry to hear that Richard.

It has happened to me too. Makes me mad.
The new company was set up 4 months before the other went down, and all the assets had been transfered to the new company. Total owing to creditors in excess of £1M.
The only people to get anything were the bank, Mr G. Brown and the bl**dy Administrators.

Needless to say the had a bit of trouble getting credit afterwards.

[thorper]

Originally Posted by Nauti Buoy

We have just found out today that a large customer of ours "Limited Company" went into administration on Thursday afternoon, owing us somewhere in the region of £19,780 inc vat. They are now set up from the same premises again as a new outfit, different name, all the same staff and the liquidators say it is perfectly legal, oh and we may not see a penny of our debt.

Is it me or is there something very wrong in this.

I guess the question now is will you do business with them again ? (assuming they pay up front this time). Can you put it about other businesses that they are bad creditors ? at least that way they would struggle to get services, & hasten their more permanent demise.

Ricky

[Hugh Jardon]

I have heard this happens far too often and is just not fair on folks like yourself who go out on a limb to provide good service and support.

some real crooks out there these days...

also they do it to get out of warranty obligations.......

Originally Posted by Nauti Buoy

We have just found out today that a large customer of ours "Limited Company" went into administration on Thursday afternoon, owing us somewhere in the region of £19,780 inc vat. They are now set up from the same premises again as a new outfit, different name, all the same staff and the liquidators say it is perfectly legal, oh and we may not see a penny of our debt.

Is it me or is there something very wrong in this.

[Nauti Buoy]

Originally Posted by thorper

I guess the question now is will you do business with them again ? (assuming they pay up front this time).

No will not be doing any further business with them, don't feel like helping them out. Planning on approaching their clients for the work direct, as we printed the work for the agency, so still have the artwork etc. Plus can beat their prices as they put on a surcharge.

Originally Posted by thorper

Can you put it about other businesses that they are bad creditors ? at least that way they would struggle to get services, & hasten their more permanent demise.

Yes, but the print trade is quite a close nit "community" and word soon spreads so have naturally done my bit.

Hey ho!!!

[Scotty]

The Irish revenue have a "Phoenix" division to deal with operations like this. Maybe you should talk to the tax people. Dont get angry, get even.

[Simon B]

Wonder if they changed the name on their insurance as well.......

[MikeCC]

Originally Posted by Nauti Buoy

No will not be doing any further business with them, don't feel like helping them out. Planning on approaching their clients for the work direct, as we printed the work for the agency, so still have the artwork etc. Plus can beat their prices as they put on a surcharge.

Richard,

Sorry to hear about this - I agree it's a crap way for things to go on. The issue is the dividing line between someone genuinely having problems with their business or someone who is intent on taking the max out ot it and sod the consequences.

Do you use any of the credit checking agencies? D&B, Graydon etc. People often use them when they open accounts but don't review. You do get some extra info that isn't derived from Companies House.

As it's now a different company, you won't be breaching any agreements by going direct to the end client. One of the plusses in your business is you can usually tell where ithe work is going! With a bit of luck the end customers will take the same dim view and work with you.

Goodl luck.

[Jeff Pike]

Originally Posted by MikeCC

The issue is the dividing line between someone genuinely having problems with their business or someone who is intent on taking the max out ot it and sod the consequences.

Sorry Mike, nothing personal - think this is Bollocks. My father's company got into problems a while ago. I jacked in my job, joined in the family firm, worked the company and paid off £100,000 worth of his debts to various creditors and closed the company down with EVERYONE paid off and got him to a position where he retired with another £100,000 in the bank, all his personal debts paid off and a brand new car sitting in the garage. It's a matter of ethics. It is too easy in this country to f**k about with other peoples livelihoods. He promptly missmanaged the money - but hey ho, it was his money then, not someone elses.

Now the other side of the story. 4 years ago my parents employed a builder to do some work (Ltd Co). Poor job. Idiots paid them. Builder renaged on guarantee. Went into administration. Turns out had a mirror Co up and running and just switched the business to the new firm (done it several times by all accounts). Sued them following Barristers advice that they had made mistakes & these had led to liability being transferred to the new Co. As is typical with this country the Judge disagreed (perhaps he had PMT, or a hang over or maybe his suspender belt was digging in that morning). My parents have just received a £20,000 legal bill & now have £10,000 of repairs they have to fund themselves. British justice at work.

Now, where did I leave those emigration papers?

[MikeCC]

Jeff,

What I meant was that someone looking at it after the event couldn't necessarily always tell the shysters from the unlucky in order to take punitive action. In other words there's a difference betweem making some poor/misguided decisions and deliberately lining up a re-start.

You've actually reinforced my point - your father was fortunate enough to have someone who recognised the problems and did something about it. There's lots of businesses where through circumstances, ability, organisation or whatever that doesn't happen and the thing goes down the tubes. That's what I mean about someone having a genuine problem.

Take Mr Brown's recent withdrawal of the Home Computer Initiative. Quite a few firms making a big proportion of sales tied up with the scheme. Gone overnight - who's fault is that when the companies go pop?

[Jeff Pike]

Fair enough Mike,

As for Brown, you don't want to get me started on what he has done to damage our economy (along with Blair). Enough or JK will have my guts for garters.

Jeff

[Richard B]

Originally Posted by Nauti Buoy

Planning on approaching their clients for the work direct, as we printed the work for the agency, so still have the artwork etc. Plus can beat their prices as they put on a surcharge.

Cool, work clever! Good luck with it