Manual vs Automatic Cars - Page 6

codprawn · 10 November 2005, 22:26

Suprised you had all those problems - bushes don't last that long but other than that they tend to be ok. A few of the car mags have done long term tests on them and had no trouble at all.

The engine is made in a Ford plant but was designed for Jaguar - it's the same engine in the new RR as well.

Most makers buy bits off the shelf these days and many parts end up in the same cars - which is why I find it strange when somebody will criticise a particular gearbox when you find it in a rivals vehicle as well....

Bloke I know has just bought an XK8 supercharged - he always had a string of MBWs before - everything from the 635csi onwards including several Ms - he loves his new Jag and it looks stunning in red.

Hugh Jardon · 10 November 2005, 22:38

mine had all the probs for everyone....garage said mine was the first they had heard of with a head gasket gone, timing chains can go but is rare......mine did....unlucky i guess but i did use every last horse and the brakes would smell awful when i got back from a fun drive......must be the mad biker in me i guess

xkr is nice in shape but no room for kids in the back and boot is even smaller, that ruled one of them out......

gbox is fine on the xjr, very eager but the gear shift mechanism is naff in my view
now probs, let me see
rear bumper fell off, they do due to dissimilar metal corrosion on bumper bolts, naff british design
when i got it then had all new suspension all round
all new brakes and disks all round
head gasket went on one bank
wheel bearings went annually
timing chain and tensioners went and damaged timing cover, all 4 timing chains and cover and tensionsers replaced ££££££££
second set of frt wheel bearings
second set of rear suspension
lots of tyres
other than tht a great car
went like stink
engine never sounds pushed and i was going to have a big bore stainless system fitted and crank up the compression on the supercharger but....
decided to go back to bmw

i purchased it as i wanted to own one and it was great but not sorry to see it go

was like owning a formula 1 car, went like stink but you never knew if you would finish the race

and with an auto you can boot it and you know you will hit 60 in 5.3 as you dont miss gears, lots of wheelspin etc but never found a car that could outpace it which was quite funny with all the family in the car

so to wrap up, Autos are fantastic for flooring it and the mrs does not get too miffed as her head only gets thrown back once and then you take off.........so if you like driving fast and the mrs moans about your jerky gearchanges when you are thrapping it then get a big auto....works wonders

of to bed now to dream about me new rib and mollers paper bags

Quote:

Originally Posted by codprawn

Suprised you had all those problems - bushes don't last that long but other than that they tend to be ok. A few of the car mags have done long term tests on them and had no trouble at all.

The engine is made in a Ford plant but was designed for Jaguar - it's the same engine in the new RR as well.

Most makers buy bits off the shelf these days and many parts end up in the same cars - which is why I find it strange when somebody will criticise a particular gearbox when you find it in a rivals vehicle as well....

Bloke I know has just bought an XK8 supercharged - he always had a string of MBWs before - everything from the 635csi onwards including several Ms - he loves his new Jag and it looks stunning in red.

hard1 · 10 November 2005, 23:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by codprawn

Suprised you had all those problems - bushes don't last that long but other than that they tend to be ok. A few of the car mags have done long term tests on them and had no trouble at all.

The engine is made in a Ford plant but was designed for Jaguar - it's the same engine in the new RR as well.

Most makers buy bits off the shelf these days and many parts end up in the same cars - which is why I find it strange when somebody will criticise a particular gearbox when you find it in a rivals vehicle as well....

Bloke I know has just bought an XK8 supercharged - he always had a string of MBWs before - everything from the 635csi onwards including several Ms - he loves his new Jag and it looks stunning in red.

The XJ8 engine may now be manufactured by a Ford owned company, but I can assure you that this superb piece of engineering was wholly conceived and designed right here in the UK by (British) Jaguar engineers long before the Ford takeover.

In the United States, they have successfully raced this very same motor in Trans Am and have achieved over 700 hp naturally aspirated on the stock block and modified heads. Here's another US inspired version.....and no, it didn't come from Google.

jellis · 11 November 2005, 00:51

[QUOTE=Mark Halliday] OK. Who is going to explain the "Heal and Toe" technique? Which is, as you know, much used with auto boxes.

I would love to see someone heal and toe without a clutch!

I know I'm going to regret getting involved in this debate, but on all this gear changing stuff as well as using engine breaking isn't there some benefit in being set up for a corner by being in the right gear to take you through the corner with maximum control. Autos are ok for pottering around, but surely proper driving requires both a gear leaver and a clutch.

I shall now go and sit in the corner with a hard hat on

atb

Jon

Richard B · 11 November 2005, 00:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by jellis

I would love to see someone heal and toe without a clutch!

LOL! Mark, was that a Halliday tongue and cheek demonstration?

Jon - Were you tempted to criptically call your RIB "Ram Jam"?

jellis · 11 November 2005, 01:03

Jon - Were you tempted to criptically call your RIB "Ram Jam"?

[/QUOTE]

I play the sounds as I drive the boat!

Jon

Mark Halliday · 11 November 2005, 07:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by codprawn

And there's me thinking you used left foot braking......

Only to get the tail out.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Richard B

LOL! Mark, was that a Halliday tongue and cheek demonstration?

No. Pure Herring. I had an idea who would not notice this error.

Hugh Jardon · 11 November 2005, 08:13

[QUOTE=jellis]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark Halliday

OK. Who is going to explain the "Heal and Toe" technique? Which is, as you know, much used with auto boxes.

I would love to see someone heal and toe without a clutch!

I know I'm going to regret getting involved in this debate, but on all this gear changing stuff as well as using engine breaking isn't there some benefit in being set up for a corner by being in the right gear to take you through the corner with maximum control. Autos are ok for pottering around, but surely proper driving requires both a gear leaver and a clutch.

I shall now go and sit in the corner with a hard hat on

atb

Jon

haha love it, dont ue heel and toe myself so cant help there

but i do agree that if you want to take a corner very fast then it is best to enter, track and leave the corner in the gear most desired and with an auto you have to manually control for that gear otherwise the car can change when you dont want it too.......for max control

as for proper driving it is usually the case that we each like to think we drive really fast and faster and better than the next guy. I personally drive fast on bikes and cars but i know folks who drive faster and slower than me so is all relative. If i was doing a circuit on a race track i would use a geared car or tiptronic if it was an auto bmw, but on britains roads an auto works ok most of the time i find in a car

now on a bike....auto box.......nooooooooooooooooooo way

guess that answers your question

Jono · 11 November 2005, 08:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by codprawn

- in 1989 when I was a very unexperienced driver .

What age did you learn to drive/pass your test at Codders? Don't forget some of the *ahem* older "gents" on here may have been taught differently because cars were different way back then... or in DM's case accompanied by a man with a red flag....

stan_deezy · 11 November 2005, 08:40

Cor blimey guv, strike a light

I leave this thread yesterday afternoon and it descends again into anoraky (and me spellings getting wurse since being on this sight!)

A few things made me smile though (but the magistrate took a lenient view

)

" heAl and toe" perhaps that was aimed at DM and a nod to his profession?

and everyone who talks about "engine breaking"

and the point made about people's first reaction to seeing an emergency vehicle with blues & twos going got me into lantern swinging mode......

.....the new landrover had just arrived at our station and the kit had just been transferred into the dexion shelving in the rear when a shout came through. Yours truly jumped aboard and proceeded at speed along a lovely A-road. As I approached an elderly gent in a Mk1 Ford Consul (immaculate it was too) I decided to warn him of my presence and stuck on the siren. He did the predictable and hit the anchors.....and then swerved onto the other side of the road. When I hit the wonderful new brakes in the Landrover that was when I discovered a slight flaw in the new shelving in the rear of the Landrover: no end stops

and was promptly submerged by all the kit hurtling forwards and clouting me

here Jono, don't mock us poor old gits wot remember the red flags........my bleeding arm still aches from carrying one

DM · 11 November 2005, 10:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jono

or in DM's case accompanied by a man with a red flag....

At least I never went through that stage where middle aged men feel the need to ride round on large motorcycles, dressed up like the Terminator, with 'Born to be wild' blasting out of the headphones.

You can see them quite often in olde worlde cafes drinking herbal tea and eating organic tea cakes.

DM

Jono · 11 November 2005, 10:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by davidmanning

At least I never went through that stage where middle aged men feel the need to ride round on large motorcycles, dressed up like the Terminator, with 'Born to be wild' blasting out of the headphones.

You can see them quite often in olde worlde cafes drinking herbal tea and eating organic tea cakes.

DM

....you missed a couple of keywords...."Fat"... "Bald"......"Sad".......

DM · 11 November 2005, 10:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jono

....you missed a couple of keywords...."Fat"... "Bald"......"Sad".......

Never mind. Thats nothing that the Atkins diet, a wig and a bottle of Jamesons can't put right.

DM

donutsina911 · 11 November 2005, 10:52

"In theory an automatic is slower but in practice not always - when you see the 0-60 times on cars they really thrash them - a manual will soon burn out it's clutch if you rev it to 5000 and let go!!!"

cant be arsed to read 12 pages of this thread, but assuming someone has corrected this crap from codders.

Porsche 911 Turbo -

Manual: 0-60 in 4.2
Tip S: 0-60 in 4.9
through gear acceleration and top end both superior in manual car

this is the same for most cars where 0-60 sprints are relevant and some (ie LR3 TDV6) where its not. Exceptions include DSG from audi which is allegedly quicker than manual changes and more economical than an auto..

codprawn · 11 November 2005, 12:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by donutsina911

"In theory an automatic is slower but in practice not always - when you see the 0-60 times on cars they really thrash them - a manual will soon burn out it's clutch if you rev it to 5000 and let go!!!"

cant be arsed to read 12 pages of this thread, but assuming someone has corrected this crap from codders.

Porsche 911 Turbo -

Manual: 0-60 in 4.2
Tip S: 0-60 in 4.9
through gear acceleration and top end both superior in manual car

this is the same for most cars where 0-60 sprints are relevant and some (ie LR3 TDV6) where its not. Exceptions include DSG from audi which is allegedly quicker than manual changes and more economical than an auto..

Excuse me - "this crap from codders" - I seemed about the ONLY one sticking up for manuals - nearly everyone else said they were a waste of time!!!

Yes a manual is faster than an auto - no contest BUT as I said - when the mags or manufacturers post their 0-60 times they have to seriosuly abuse the cars to do it.

I have often read - and also have experience of - people in many cars - INCLUDING 911s - wrecking clutches after maybe only 2 or 3 attempts to get fast times. the standard technique is to bring the revs up to about 5,000 and then let go!!!

An automatic will take 0-60 runs all day long(conventional auto) - a manual most certainly will NOT!!!

The hardest cars to get good times out of are 4wd turbos like an Imprezza - to keep the engine in the max powerband you have to slip the clutch as there is too much traction to spin the wheels.

Without abusing a car day in day out an automatic IS quicker for most drivers - it only takes a fraction of a delay changing up etc for the auto to have won.

Rogue Wave · 11 November 2005, 12:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by davidmanning

I surrender.

DM

Yeah that's the problem with you anything for an Easy life! So what do you now about driving fast then David.

I should listen to someone who nows a bit about the subject if I was you!