Landrover Discovery stalling - any ideas?

Jon · 04 October 2005, 16:27

We have a T reg V8i auto disco with about 45k miles on the clock which has developed an intermittent stalling problem.

We were originally told by the main dealer that this would "definitely" be because of the alarm spider solder cracking and that would be the princely sum of £500ish plus VAT. We compromised and had the existing one resoldered and yet there continue to be problems - just cuts out randomly as you're driving along. The engine will restart after a "rest" of about 10-15 minutes.

Then they said that it must "almost definitely" be to do with an exhaust vacuum hose split and that having mended that it would be OK - it cut out on me on the way home from the garage!

They had it back for four days and couldn't replicate the problem at all but pulled apart all the electrics behind the dashboard and reseated it all. It was fine for a week and then started doing it again. We thought it could be a fuel pick-up issue with the tank running low but it happened again to me last night with a full tank (that hurt!).

If anyone has any ideas (apart from running it off a cliff) about what this could be down to I would be grateful for any advice.

It's too random to even consider towing the boat at present!

Anyway, off to run the rush hour with an intermittent fault!

codprawn · 04 October 2005, 16:36

Find an independant expert who knows what he is on about - no faith at all in MAIN dealers - no matter what make they support!!!

Is your an auto? It could be a problem caused by the gearbox controller.

The Rover V8 is a great engine but of course they can never leave well alone and they have put more and more elctronics onto it.

It could well be an ECU fault or an immobiliser fault - the list is endless as they are so "sophisticated" these days!!! Still drinks loads of fuel though!!!

Try asking this bloke

http://www.v8engines.com/homepage.htm

Speak to Chris Crane poersonally - he knows V8s better than anyone!!!

also ask on

alt.fan.landrover - loads of help on there!!!

Hugh Jardon · 04 October 2005, 17:44

maybe try the guy at safari engineering near sandhurst, they have always been very helpful for me in the past. they are all on the web, cheap for spares too

http://www.safari-engineering.co.uk/

that is a really annoying problem you have and i hate it when garages take the approach yours has, it is costly and wastes time and tries your patience.

as codders says try the landrover forum as like here they may have some good experts there too

regards

chris

gavin · 04 October 2005, 18:27

Can you describe the fault a little more, do you lose display lighting, can you bypass the alarm immobliser relay, check for earth straps which may be lose, loose connectors, open connectors under the engine bay spray wd 40 into anything suspicous, check for loose fuses and all relays are securley plugged in.

Alternativly we will spin across from Ireland and throw you a long line ,
i reckon our opti would pull a disco off a cliff no problem, to help you get over the shock I will personally undertake to drive you around all the Jap dealers and help you pick one Good Luck

codprawn · 04 October 2005, 19:00

Of course NO other modern cars suffer from electrical gremlins!!!

Hugh Jardon · 04 October 2005, 19:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by codprawn

Of course NO other modern cars suffer from electrical gremlins!!!

I am sure Jon will feel much better knowing that, very helpful!!

Mark Halliday · 04 October 2005, 19:43

Jon

I have just bought a P plate V8i ES with 59k on the clock.
One thing that is bothering me is the fact that there seems to be a very small or no breather on the fuel tank. Hence the notice in the filler hatch about slowly letting the air in before opening. Mine is making a loud humming from around the filler after the engine is turned off.

Could it be that the vent (there must be something) is blocked and you are pulling a vacuum in the tank which is too much for the fuel pump? Waiting a while (10-15 mins) may let air in to relieve the vacuum.
Try opening the filler cap when it next happens, and see if it will start when the hissing stops.

I don't have a manual for the beast yet, so this is just a guess from my observations.

codprawn · 04 October 2005, 19:59

Could be that or a blocked fuel filter - on mine I had an intermittent cutting out that happened only under load - thought it was electrics at first - I would stop - spray WD40 around - then the engine would start ok - replaced the leads and coil and still the same - I looked inside the fuel filter and found it was full of mud!!!

The bloke who had it before me had used a piece of garden hose as a tank breather - it had split and with my constant offroading loads of mud and water got into the tank - suprised it ran at all......

Hugh Jardon · 04 October 2005, 21:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark Halliday

I don't have a manual for the beast yet, so this is just a guess from my observations.

I have the electronic manuals for the disco that the lr garage use if that helps, pm me your address and i would be happy to send a copy over.

if Jon wants a copy too then just say, never know it might help you understand the thing more

chris

Stuart M · 04 October 2005, 21:21

I had a similiar problem with a Range Rover classic. It turned out to be the fuel pump wiring, the wiring ran under the near side passanger carpet and had a connector joining it. This was a loose connection and when it got hot the fuel pump stopped and so did the engine. Leave it 10 mins and it was fine.

Brilliant design eh?, When on earth would running a cable with a connector under a carpet where people tread be a good idea, but then what can you expect from a vehicle that had allegro door handles 20 years later?

Main agent couldn't find the problem on four occassion (but then they were useless!) - It was the AA that sussed it out.

Sold the car after 1 year - great offroader - it was off the road 4 times in 1 year - in the bloody garage!

Since then the last 9 years have been trouble free motoring (in Jap and non LR vehicles!) - although I did change a battery once!

Richard B · 04 October 2005, 21:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stuart M

a vehicle that had allegro door handles 20 years later?

At least it wasn't the steering wheel!

I developed an interesting technique in handling Rover main dealers a few years ago when Louise had a new Rover car. It suffered from occasional flat batteries which was just what you wanted (not!) on a cold morning after trading in your old but reliable car for the new expensive one. Anyway, after the third or fourth failure, I 'phoned the service manager and insisted on some answers. I asked him how many fully trained technicians he had, how he rated their expertise, and if he had confidence in the product. After getting him to commit to backing the product and the staff 100% I asked him what he would do for us the next time the car broke down. He promised us that in the unlikely event of this happening, their own recovery truck would bring a courtesty car out to swop and avoid us the AA/RAC coming out twice, relaying, etc.

We then moved house, 145 miles away.

The next time the car wouldn't start, I 'phoned him, and kept him to his promise. The car was fixed properly that time

codprawn · 04 October 2005, 22:04

So much depends on the actual mechanic in question. I have only met 2 who work for main dealers that I would ever have faith in - one works for a Rover dealer - the other for Suzuki/Nissan.

Having said that when it comes to car electrics it is a different ball game altogether. A very good mate of mine has just got out of auto electrics to go onto better things but when he was up and running ALL the main dealers in our area would come to him when they were really stuck.

The trouble is the way modern car electrics are going you need electronics engineers and even then it is often the case that the only way to fix something is to unplug a module and put a new one in.

Bit like a faulty network card in a computer - when you finally realsi it's faulty you just bin it and put a new one in - nnot worth messing about for a £10. Sadly most car ECUs cost a hell of a lot more than that!!!

Alan · 04 October 2005, 22:52

Sadly the ineptitude of main dealer technicians (they're called technicians these days not mechanics mind) appears to be a global phenomenon and not restricted to LR either. I recently took the jeep in to have a problem with the front passenger electric window sorted which they did successfully but in the process managed to disconnect the door handle so it was impossible to get out of the car! And this was a friggin master technician too.

I can't offer the OP any advice on his stalling LR except to observe that finding a good independent specialist would probably be a good recourse on a vehicle of that era. Main dealers sadly will have their hands full with fixing the problems of the newer vehicles..............

And far be it from me to dispute the word of Cod these days but, have you considered there is a reason why engines are getting ever more complex (emissions) and that car electronics are indeed plug and play. The costs of replacing ECU's etc are driven by a) the fact that the economies of scale are vastly lower than the computer business and b) car manufacturers desperately need to make money on parts because they make little on the actual cars themselves!

codprawn · 04 October 2005, 23:01

[QUOTE=Alan
And far be it from me to dispute the word of Cod these days but, have you considered there is a reason why engines are getting ever more complex (emissions) and that car electronics are indeed plug and play. The costs of replacing ECU's etc are driven by a) the fact that the economies of scale are vastly lower than the computer business and b) car manufacturers desperately need to make money on parts because they make little on the actual cars themselves! [/QUOTE]

On "a" I would disagree - look how many cars share common parts and look at just how many they build - in some cases millions!!!

A few years ago we did some work for a large component supplier to Ford - a bloke I know had just paid about £75 for a heater control part. When I mentioned it to someone at the factory where they were actually made they were horrified - they sold them for £3!!!

Some parts though are stupidly cheap - how can they charge £50 for a simple switch - then sell a large piece of precision machined steel that is vital to safety for £12(brake disc)!!!

Hugh Jardon · 04 October 2005, 23:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by codprawn

Some parts though are stupidly cheap - how can they charge £50 for a simple switch - then sell a large piece of precision machined steel that is vital to safety for £12(brake disc)!!!

supply and demand

Alan · 04 October 2005, 23:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by codprawn

On "a" I would disagree - look how many cars share common parts and look at just how many they build - in some cases millions!!!

A few years ago we did some work for a large component supplier to Ford - a bloke I know had just paid about £75 for a heater control part. When I mentioned it to someone at the factory where they were actually made they were horrified - they sold them for £3!!!

Some parts though are stupidly cheap - how can they charge £50 for a simple switch - then sell a large piece of precision machined steel that is vital to safety for £12(brake disc)!!!

Car Industry economics 101....

Of course the supplier sells the bloody heater control part for 3 quid. The car manufacturer has a highly experienced bunch of purchasing professionals whose job is to buy that widget for 3 quid. Although the bean counters think it should cost 2 quid but the engineers have specified a part that should cost 4 quid. The aftermarket price for that part will be massively higher, not only because the distribution costs are significantly higher than for the part used in production but also because they can charge more!

I may not have a mate who does this, has that or whatever. I do have some experience in this field so forgive me my exasperation with the word of Cod on this occasion.

codprawn · 05 October 2005, 02:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alan

Car Industry economics 101....

Of course the supplier sells the bloody heater control part for 3 quid. The car manufacturer has a highly experienced bunch of purchasing professionals whose job is to buy that widget for 3 quid. Although the bean counters think it should cost 2 quid but the engineers have specified a part that should cost 4 quid. The aftermarket price for that part will be massively higher, not only because the distribution costs are significantly higher than for the part used in production but also because they can charge more!

I may not have a mate who does this, has that or whatever. I do have some experience in this field so forgive me my exasperation with the word of Cod on this occasion.

I only disagreed with one little thing you said for goodness sake - the attack was at the amount they charge - NOT at you!!!

Jono · 05 October 2005, 06:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alan

Car Industry economics 101....

...has a highly experienced bunch of purchasing professionals whose job is to buy that widget for 3 quid. Although the bean counters think it should cost 2 quid but the engineers have specified a part that should cost 4 quid.

Welcome tro the wonderful world of engineering.... run by "bean counters"

I think you have summed up pretty much what is wrong with industry in this country (and others no doubt).

Michael S · 05 October 2005, 09:17

Jon,

I had an almost identical problem on mine (P reg v8 auto). It stalled started after a rest a couple of times but would then only get half a mile or so before stopping again. It was apparently an immobiliser problem which a local independant landie mechanic (and rib nut) sorted out by bypassing it. PM me if you want me to try and get hold of him for more detail.

Mike

ollyit · 05 October 2005, 09:59

dodgy Idle control valve? - split in a vacuum hose going to or fro