Brits living in the US beware

codprawn · 28 August 2008, 19:57

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wa...1466-21501187/

Just read this and was horrified.

Basically anyone who has been charged with even a very minor crime in the US can be deported at any time.

A Welsh bloke who moved to the US when he was 15 has just been deported for a crime he committed when he was 17 - firing a gun into an empty swimming pool - he was fined at the time. Twenty years later they arrested him and held him in jail before kicking him out - he has lost his business and everything else!!!

One poor 82 yr old French man had been living in the US for most of his life - he committed a very minor crime many years agao and they chucked him in jail for 7 months and then sent him back to France - where he had nothing.

The law is called the Ira Ira - seriously!!!

willk · 28 August 2008, 20:28

http://www.newstatesman.com/200411220005

IRA IRA is a double TLA. It never ceases to amaze me that despite holding nothing but contempt for the US, so many people are shocked when they won't let our citizens in/stay! The Irish in particular can think of no reason why we aren't simply given keys to the back door, but feel that there might be too many Mexicans about the place!

One thing all these victims have in common, is that if they had taken out Citizenship of their chosen land, they'd still be there. And least we get too worked up in self righteous frenzy:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/s...al/6756341.stm

codprawn · 28 August 2008, 20:41

That is just as bad!!!

This is NOT an attack on the US - I hate this sort of unfairness no matter who does it..............

This is just another example of where common sense has totally gone out of the window. Give them a new law and they WILL abuse it!!!

willk · 28 August 2008, 20:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by codprawn

This is NOT an attack on the US - I hate this sort of unfairness no matter who does it..............

Sorry, I meant people generally, didn't mean to suggest you were...

and common sense will have to be renamed - it's a bit scarce!

Dirk Diggler · 28 August 2008, 21:04

Does seem a bit unfair, I'd have thought the death penalty would be better than being deported to Wales!

willk · 28 August 2008, 21:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dirk Diggler

Does seem a bit unfair, I'd have thought the death penalty would be better than being deported to Wales!

dammit, there should be a death penalty for making me spill my beer while LOL.

Bigfoot · 28 August 2008, 21:19

While I'm not condoning the whole deportation thing, I had to do an essay on this kind of thing for My International Relations part of my degree and in Britain, you could pretty much be yanked off the street and deported for trial, which could be delayed (e.g. guantanamo bay) and you could be held indefinatley.

codprawn · 28 August 2008, 21:30

Yes like the poor British hacker.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7585861.stm

The USA can extradite anyone they like from the UK but we can't do it the other way around - NOT the fault of the US but our Government!!!

The Nat West 3 were another classic example!!!

Bigmuz7 · 28 August 2008, 21:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by codprawn

Yes like the poor British hacker.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7585861.stm

The USA can extradite anyone they like from the UK but we can't do it the other way around - NOT the fault of the US but our Government!!!

The Nat West 3 were another classic example!!!

Should he get 60 years in the can for that ? or do you think they ought to put him to good use showing how crap their network defences are

Poly · 28 August 2008, 22:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bigmuz7

Should he get 60 years in the can for that ? or do you think they ought to put him to good use showing how crap their network defences are

I am a bit surprised that our security services couldn't find a role for him in return for not allowing his extradition? on the other hand he didn't do it by accident - surely anyone would realise that hacking the US government was likely to land you in the sh!t, one way or another.

codprawn · 28 August 2008, 22:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Polwart

I am a bit surprised that our security services couldn't find a role for him in return for not allowing his extradition? on the other hand he didn't do it by accident - surely anyone would realise that hacking the US government was likely to land you in the sh!t, one way or another.

Only because our Government signed a ONE WAY extradition deal.

willk · 28 August 2008, 22:25

Given the number of Chinese and Russian hackers on the loose, it seems extreme - locking up an Asperger's sufferer with delusions of Alien Invasion.......

... The Truth is F**king Out There!

Poly · 28 August 2008, 22:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by codprawn

Only because our Government signed a ONE WAY extradition deal.

no he'd still be in the sh!t even if it was a bilateral agreement! Even without the agreement it still doesn't seem like a smart move.

dawesy · 29 August 2008, 10:00

Before the point is missed..... Where and how do they aquire our personal infomation? Makes you wonder who's watching who and who's telling who what!!!

Bigfoot · 29 August 2008, 10:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by codprawn

Only because our Government signed a ONE WAY extradition deal.

Without sounding like a writer from 'Spooks' if the Americans started to come over and bag and tag people on the streets, the British secret services would get a little bit pissy. It's actually us who sends people off, after a request has been put in, we could actually tell them to p*ss off, but hey , who's got the money.....

Bigmuz7 · 29 August 2008, 20:57

I agree with Polwart that if you fook with the US, on a military perspective you gonna gets what comin to you.. but I doubt if they will put the lad in the slammer,.. they will want know what he knows, and how he did it, that said, we only know whats told to us

but if the breach was as big as told, and some 'dude' from blighty exposed it, they must have the sh***ters up them about who else could do this

Bigfoot · 30 August 2008, 07:39

theirn lies the beauty of terrorism, thrives on an international level and works on a cell nature. whereas the US has all of it's secrets tucked away in one computer system (simplified i know) and the chain of command means it's knowledge base is easier penetrated.

With regards to the 'dont mess with the US' and 'you'll get whats coming to you' ... to be honest the amount the US meddles in the affairs of other states, it deserves whats coming to it too,
take the largest open prison in the World, the Gaza strip. Israel was created with the US' backing, and instantly became an aggressive state to it's neighbors. the US then decides to muscle in on the middle east and try and 'resolve' the issue, and while palestinians are 'visciously driving bomb laden cars into the middle of Jerusalem' the Israelis are 'bravely...' dropping bombs onto schoolchildren playing football.. . If the US hadn't plied Israel with a high-tech arsenal of weapons to the Israelis they wouldn't have been able to have been an instantly aggressive state...

Sorry to have a bit of a rant, but I really , really dislike US policies,

willk · 30 August 2008, 09:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bigfoot

Israel was created with the US' backing, and instantly became an aggressive state to it's neighbors. the US then decides to muscle in on the middle east and try and 'resolve' the issue,

I understood that Palestine (and what is now Jordan) was a British controlled area until 1948, when they gave up their Mandate. Egypt, Syria, Jordan and Lebanon immediately invaded the area. The United Nations (UK is and was a member) approved the formation of Israel as a state in 1949.

As your own (leftist?) Government seems to be aware - and your own Army's presence in Iraq and Afghanistan* confirms, sometimes "affirmative" action in other people's countries is necessary to keep the general peace. Indeed, the current state of peace in Northern Ireland has freed up your troops and hardware for the above operations. An American brokered state of peace, I might add........ Thanks Bill. oh, and Hillary, sry Hill.

* Not an exhaustive list

codprawn · 31 August 2008, 17:55

The UK did NOT approve of what took place in Palestine but our hand was forced - people felt pretty sorry for the Jews in the late 1940s!!!

There will NEVER be peace in this World whilst Arabs and Jews are still around. In the past the UK had the sense to distance ourselves as much as possible from the whole mess!!!

tinker · 31 August 2008, 19:30

On the subject of UK information, IMHO the US will have access to it all on any attempt to enter the US .
I once worked with someone who went to the US with his family to get married. He did not declare a minor crime he had committed as a child on the US visa app, when he arrived in the US he was sent straight back to the UK, his wedding delayed and all his guests stuck at JFK.
On another note If you ever have the chance to look at a websites server stats you will be interested to see how many times the US military will have a look, a thread like this will have many trigger words and I bet they will have a look, Mr JK may have a tap on his shoulder the next time he visits the US