Scottish Sib Outing 2017 Oban to Mull July 22/23

[Big Al C]

Hi all, at this point in time I'm up for it,,,,,, but will be making it a long weekend. Probably come up Thursday evening and stop till Monday, have followed all the previous outing that have taken place but never had the spare time to get there.
A mate of mine is on about joining me,,,,, but he's a plumber so no guarantee he'll show.
Have wild camped up there before with the boat,,,,, Loch Linnhe a few times and Loch na Droma Buidhe.
Fuel wise I always over do it, I'm looking at 70lts.

[breezeblock]

Originally Posted by Big Al C

Hi all, at this point in time I'm up for it,,,,,, but will be making it a long weekend. Probably come up Thursday evening and stop till Monday, have followed all the previous outing that have taken place but never had the spare time to get there.
A mate of mine is on about joining me,,,,, but he's a plumber so no guarantee he'll show.
Have wild camped up there before with the boat,,,,, Loch Linnhe a few times and Loch na Droma Buidhe.
Fuel wise I always over do it, I'm looking at 70lts.

can you go all the way thru loch na drama buidhe

[Big Al C]

You can get through 2 hours either side of high tide (east end, west entrance is deep enough for sail boats. I managed to stall the outboard with sea weed/kelp around the prop when it was low. Started it up,,,,, put it into reverse with a few revs and cleared it all.
A lot of the sail boats use the loch for over night mooring as its sheltered.

[Stevie Bill]

I'm still only a probable. Engine run in but need more experience before attempting anything as adventurous.. Fuel estimates look scary. Twatzu 20 data suggests 6lph at wot which equates roughly 3.2 mpl. Which means for an 80mile round trip around 25 litres or less with less wrist wringing... Even adding 30% contingency I might have thought 35 litres quite generous... But this is way under amounts being discussed here. Where am I going wrong? Need to get in a couple of long measured runs to check?

[Big Al C]

You'll get better fuel use out of the 4 stroke compared to the 2 strokes. I'd rather have to much than not enough.

[Highland Haggis]

It's better to have more fuel than not enough I have been caught out a few times and it's not funny being stuck in the middle of nowhere without fuel or help near by

[Stigomery]

On last year's Scottish outing we covered circa 60 miles, during which time I used approx 20l of fuel - that's in a 20HP Honda off the back of a Honwave 3.8. I took 37 litres in total. TBH I didn't mind the extra ballast as it was a little choppy at times.

[jeffstevens763@g]

Originally Posted by Stevie Bill

I'm still only a probable. Engine run in but need more experience before attempting anything as adventurous.. Fuel estimates look scary. Twatzu 20 data suggests 6lph at wot which equates roughly 3.2 mpl. Which means for an 80mile round trip around 25 litres or less with less wrist wringing... Even adding 30% contingency I might have thought 35 litres quite generous... But this is way under amounts being discussed here. Where am I going wrong? Need to get in a couple of long measured runs to check?

Stevie this exactly the type of trip you should come on with all the backing from other Sib'S no better way to learn what we are saying is have plenty more than you need of fuel to be safe

[Poly]

Originally Posted by Stevie Bill

Where am I going wrong?

You are assuming you will do 19.2 mph? You might in which case your measurements are probably bang on. If its choppy though and you only manage 15 mph (bearing in mind you'll have a lot of kit to carry), but are still doing close to WOT - you will be using 25% more. Last year I (and a couple of others) bought extra fuel on the way home as whilst we probably had enough - it was just looking a bit tight (it was also easier to refill the big tank than transfer from all the small cans). I'm glad I did as it was lumpy on the way home and possibly because of my fuel filter issues I wasn't making as much progress as usual, and seemed to have used more fuel than I expected. If there is fuel at Tobermory I wouldn't worry too much in your shoes*. If after day 1 you've used more than 1/3rd just refill on way back.

* Well I always like to have a spare 5L can hidden in a locker for the Oh S**t I miscalculated that moment! I don't include that in my what to carry calcs - it is the contingency for the contingency!

[The Gurnard]

Hi Stevie .. you ask a good question..and as Poly suggests..the answer you have given is based on theory.

Personally ..I would be very surprised if anyone used more than 50 litres. My thirsty 25HP two stroke is on a very heavy 4.3m SIB and gives around 10 miles for every 5 litres. Yours will be a lot more economical to run. Both Stig and Kaman returned figures of around 20L for a 50-60 mile journey on the SIB outings..so your figure is reasonable .. as they have similar set ups.

However its worth mentioning ..this trip is a bit different to SIBing in the Clyde. There is an old saying.. “there is no tide in the Clyde” ..which is not strictly true as there are tides ..but not like in the Sound of Mull.

At the Lismore end it runs approx 4 knots on springs. Its a 4 meter tide on the weekend planned..so is a spring tide.

In the sound itself .. it runs around 2 knots. At the top end..it varies and gets quite confused as tides from Loch Sunnart.. Sound of Mull ..and the Sea from Ardnamurchan all interact with each other..so we could assume 4 knots at that end too. These tides will all lower your fuel consumption. On the return journey..you will be heading straight into them. Hopefully .. they will assist on the Saturday’s journey

I would not be surprised if we went at displacement speed through the 4 knot tide races as it can get quite lumpy and uncomfortable going faster. This will use more fuel than going at plain speeds. If wind blows against the tide in the Sound ..it can be a lively journey.

Here are some photos from the sound ..but don’t let them put you off..I knew the Forecast on that day was for Force 6 gusts..and it happened. I wouldn’t go in those kind of conditions with folk I didn’t know their ability.

These are only to illustrate how the tide can interact with the wind if it gusts up ..especially across from Tobermory...and why you may not get fuel there under a difficult unforeseen circumstance .. (although very unlikely on this trip.)

At certain headlands ..large waves can form. That day..I had planned to cross to Tobermory..not for fuel..but for a Fish Supper. Its a bit of an open crossing to get there from the opposite side . I decided to stay on the side I was on. If i needed fuel..I would have been forced to make that crossing...something I didn’t really want to do in my 2.75m F Rib






Guess what Im saying is ..I know 50 litres will see me round..and possibly have a small drop left .. however I have the capacity to take more..so will. If anyone ran out of fuel ..I would offer them some. Im sure everyone else would do like wise too. We work as one on these adventures.

However..it makes sense to carry as much as you can to cover your own trip ..and also be in a position to cover the unforeseen. I would hope that if it was only me and you on the trip ..and my two stroke broke down.. you would offer to tow me to safety..which would also use more fuel than calculated. My fuel is two stroke ..so we cant swap fuel. However I also carry some without two stroke oil..(plus some 2 stroke oil) for unforeseen circumstances. Poly used more fuel than he planned last year..as he kindly took an extra passanger who couldn’t get his OB going.

Hope that helps explain why it is best to carry more fuel as Im sure many other unplanned for things can happen too.

As Jeff mentions..it will be good experience going in company ..you are already seeing a little part of “Route Planning” and having alternate plans B and C .. and worst case things that could happen etc.

If your boat is the same as Poly’s.. you will also be like me.. and find it too heavy to pull up a beach ?..so will have to anchor. Keep that in mind too..if that is your situation. Carry enough rope to tie onto land and a decent anchor for over the stern.

@Breezeblock..yup..a boat can get through at hight tide..but be wary if you try with a large RIB.. its a narrow rocky seaweed strewn channel..and when the tide turns..has a strong flow to bounce your boat off the sides. A path has been cleared of seaweed by the many kayakers who portage their boats through at less than ideal times.This is a photo of the east exit at mid to low tide.



Its perhaps worth mentioning that if we go round Oronsay..which is more than likely..there are a few nasty rocks just lurking below the surface on the way past Ceann Garbh point. You may think you are well clear of land..then they appear. They have taken a few lumps out of unwary props in their passing..so beware of them.and go further out than you may initially think.

[Stevie Bill]

Thanks people. Genuinely helpful responses from everyone, I really appreciate it. 50 litres it is- plus a fair bit more practice and experience before the trip! The anchor/beaching issue had already occurred to me, I think I have the right gear, but again will try to get in some practice on a calm sandy beach before doing it in an onshore force three in a rocky bay. Again, many thanks. Look forward to (maybe) meeting some of you at the launch...

[Stigomery]

Originally Posted by The Gurnard

However its worth mentioning ..this trip is a bit different to SIBing in the Clyde. There is an old saying.. “there is no tide in the Clyde” ..which is not strictly true as there are tides ..but not like in the Sound of Mull.

At the Lismore end it runs approx 4 knots on springs. Its a 4 meter tide on the weekend planned..so is a spring tide.

In the sound itself .. it runs around 2 knots. At the top end..it varies and gets quite confused as tides from Loch Sunnart.. Sound of Mull ..and the Sea from Ardnamurchan all interact with each other..so we could assume 4 knots at that end too. These tides will all lower your fuel consumption. On the return journey..you will be heading straight into them. Hopefully .. they will assist on the Saturday’s journey

I would not be surprised if we went at displacement speed through the 4 knot tide races as it can get quite lumpy and uncomfortable going faster. This will use more fuel than going at plain speeds. If wind blows against the tide in the Sound ..it can be a lively journey.

A perfect example as to why local knowledge is worth far more than a text book - thank you Gurnard, it's info like this that is invaluable to a novice like me. (it often puts me in my place too!)

[jeffstevens763@g]

those pics bring back my ERR trip gurnard saw a lot of waves at lismore i will have close on 70 lts with me and certainly have some spare to help if needed. my boat will stay afloat too.

[The Gurnard]

Hi again Stevie.. I would agree that for your case .. 50litres or even a touch less will be ample..and you will go home with some for the next trip.

Re anchoring overnight .. don’t worry about it ..as it too is a technique.

If Im correct .. a quick search tells me high tide will be around 6PM on Saturday which is great timing for all that have heavy boats.

I will allow mine to dry out on the beach on the falling tide .. around 7.30PM. Then hand set a seaward anchor around 8PM as it will now be set on dry land. Then tie off another line above high water mark.

This means my boat will be on dry land all night..only refloating around 5am as the morning High tide is around 6.30am. Im always up and about by 7.30AM so can then keep the boat afloat as the tide falls...until everyone is ready to leave.

If wind changes direction and the waves get up around the time of refloating..I will check by looking out the tent .. unless the Guinness makes me forget.





I never anchor on a shore that waves are break on. Its one of the reasons I don’t know the exact camp spot. Example .. If the wind is from the north..I know a good place in the shelter of Ardnamurchan .. on the other side of Loch Sunart..so it is an off shore wind with no waves.

Im also aware of the shelter of Loch Na droma Buidhe in most winds .. but it is not a first choice as that is where yachts tend to anchor..so slightly spoils the “Wild Camp” appeal.



However..any port in a storm..so it may be the place to camp on the day..weather dependant of course.

If weather is Force 4 gusts or above on the Sat or Sunday ..I would suggest going up Loch Linnie instead of Sound of Mull ..but that is open to everyone’s input on the day. We won’t take chances with the weather and only go where everyone is comfortable going.

It’s the benefit of going with others who know the area and what to expect..its a great way to learn about multi day adventuring skills.

[The Gurnard]

Originally Posted by jeffstevens763@g

those pics bring back my ERR trip gurnard saw a lot of waves at lismore i will have close on 70 lts with me and certainly have some spare to help if needed. my boat will stay afloat too.

Yup..it can be a bit unnerving to people who have not been in races before Jeff..I know you have so knew what to expect.

I took this lot round Lismore in a force 4 gusting force 5 ..and although they were perfectly safe and enjoyed the adrenaline rush from the race.. they did have the odd worried look on their faces until they got clear of it. You did very well going through that race on ERR day..it can be a wild place with wind over tide...as we both know





So saying all this..it can be flat calm too..its weather and time dependant..i hope for good weather..with a wee bit of wind..but not too much

Hi Stig..Im sorry you cant manage this year as you had great fun last year..and it was a bit windy then too. Im sure you will recommend such outings to others. I know I for one .. will miss your company this year.

[jambo]

Wish all a great safe weekend. Donnie you could always shelter up Loch Teacuis to make it interesting, always a navigational challenge especially in a rib. Looking forward to the write up. Cheers
J

[The Gurnard]

Yup..there are a lot of possibilities Billy...I'm sure I will manage a report of some kind.. but it may be gopro video this time instead of photos. Thanks for the good wishes for the trip

I love a beach that looks to the west..in good weather ..the sunsets are better than watching the telly



As you say.. It is interesting navigation going into Loch Teacuis. Its very shallow and has a good fast flow of water runs between the islands.

I really enjoyed going into the loch last year although it took a lot of concentration...and slow displacement speed...even in a SIB

It was early morning..so the low summer sun was in my eyes..which made seeing the depth very difficult.. but the amazing thing was.. many seals started to follow my wee boat.. jumping and splashing through the shallow waters ..only a couple of feet deep .. almost like dolphins.

I love seeing nature in the raw like that. .. and have seen sea eagles and otters in the area..as well as once in a blue moon whales or dolphins.. but its just your luck on the day.

[Maximus]

Looks like another great Outing Chaps!
Stay safe And Enjoy!!...Looking forward to the Footage already Donny!

[Brian]

I have been into Loch Na Droma Buidhe a few times now and am fairly sure there is another pinnacle of rock just past the western entrance. It is shown at 2m on my chart but I am sure it showed up as a bit less than that on my depth sounder. SIBs should have no problems however, but I was in a boat that draws 1.5m.
It is a lovely loch, however, I would advise some caution when entering (I NEVER tried to exit the eastern end!) as the entrance is narrowish and SIBs might be washed left and right and possibly hit the rocky shore to each side of the entrance.

[Highland Haggis]

Well three more weeks to go can I possibly get a rough idea how many people are hoping to come on the tour please