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Old 22 October 2013, 20:58   #161
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Old 23 October 2013, 05:49   #162
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Well I can guarantee he's had an experience that none of you posters has had, there is more or less only two ways to learn how to drive a boat, his way will produce a good boat driver if he doesn't kill himself first. If he learns from this he will have an insight that none of us has
Well said. Only reason I'm so wary of weather is that I've been caught out twice in a dory. Does me no harm to have that as a checker. Also bounced my dad out the rib and hit him, never push on without checking passengers anymore! PB2 taught me to check, but until you experience why, it's almost irrelevant.
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Old 23 October 2013, 14:25   #163
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Gosh this thread has moved on a lot since my last post.
My original comment about calling the Coastguard or not, was not a criticism of anyone present and a genuine question as to what happened.
I was specific and deliberate in asking if a PAN call was made and not expecting a MAYDAY call to be even considered. The definition of both being as follows;

PAN PAN = An Urgency situation
A condition concerning the safety of an aircraft or other vehicle, or of some person on board or within sight, but which does not require immediate assistance.

MAYDAY = A distress situation
A condition of being threatened by serious and/or imminent danger and of requiring immediate assistance.
It really gets my goat during the summer, hearing so many Mayday calls, when serious and/or imminent is NOT the case.
Keep up the debate, I personally do not think anyone involved was stupid or irresponsible and life is out there to be "lived" and only wish I had had the time to be doing what Matt is doing. Shame that the video's have been pulled, they were fun to watch AND educational!!
Steve
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Old 23 October 2013, 15:01   #164
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Good post Steve - especially the defintion of the Pan v Mayday.

I'm very open to debate and events being reviewed by others - after all this is how we learn from others.

I've considered the potential for Pan Pan call and pondered that despite all of skippers present ( three upright boats!) having considerable experiance and quals not one of us considered a call worth while.

I then considered is this due to the 'not wanting to loose face' scenario , but then considered the confidence & personality of everyone present and that if any one of us thought it needed - despite of what may be said after - they would have made the call without thought of 'not wanting to loose face'.

I think if you refer this back to the Pan pan - as soon as we knew the boat was flipped - we could see Matt swiming happily - so was not concerned for his safety. My own thougths were that I knew the boat was lightly rigged, so rigthing it should be simple enough and even if not possible a tow to Yarmouth inverted was as easily acheived by Grimalkin as Yarmouth Lifeboat.

The waves were a very defined set of about 4 or five outside of which was calm water ( as can be seen in the righting) so no risk of drifting back in to them as the current was taking us away.

Matt was in the water and watched by AJ & Longjohn on the side away from the Grimalkin, he was in communication when he was under there (I'll get the film to you so you can hear him whooping! ) . He deflated his LJ to ensure he wasn't 'trapped' under the boat and to allow more movement/ swimming (and he was in a drysuit with relatively warm water temps).

I'm happy to share my video with anyone for a view without judegment as an aid to learning two key areas - how the boats handled the waves and how we flipped the boat up. I'd say Matts driving wasn't textbook 'rough water handling' - but it wasn't about that ..it was about having fun - which is after all what we all go boating for !
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Old 23 October 2013, 15:39   #165
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I've considered the potential for Pan Pan call and pondered that despite all of skippers present ( three upright boats!) having considerable experiance and quals not one of us considered a call worth while.
ABSOLUTELY.. its the captains call! we had Father Christmas and 3 Captains and that's out decision!
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Old 24 October 2013, 08:40   #166
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Good post Steve - especially the defintion of the Pan v Mayday. I'm very open to debate and events being reviewed by others - after all this is how we learn from others. I've considered the potential for Pan Pan call and pondered that despite all of skippers present ( three upright boats!) having considerable experiance and quals not one of us considered a call worth while. I then considered is this due to the 'not wanting to loose face' scenario , but then considered the confidence & personality of everyone present and that if any one of us thought it needed - despite of what may be said after - they would have made the call without thought of 'not wanting to loose face'. I think if you refer this back to the Pan pan - as soon as we knew the boat was flipped - we could see Matt swiming happily - so was not concerned for his safety. My own thougths were that I knew the boat was lightly rigged, so rigthing it should be simple enough and even if not possible a tow to Yarmouth inverted was as easily acheived by Grimalkin as Yarmouth Lifeboat. The waves were a very defined set of about 4 or five outside of which was calm water ( as can be seen in the righting) so no risk of drifting back in to them as the current was taking us away. Matt was in the water and watched by AJ & Longjohn on the side away from the Grimalkin, he was in communication when he was under there (I'll get the film to you so you can hear him whooping! ) . He deflated his LJ to ensure he wasn't 'trapped' under the boat and to allow more movement/ swimming (and he was in a drysuit with relatively warm water temps). I'm happy to share my video with anyone for a view without judegment as an aid to learning two key areas - how the boats handled the waves and how we flipped the boat up. I'd say Matts driving wasn't textbook 'rough water handling' - but it wasn't about that ..it was about having fun - which is after all what we all go boating for !
You had a great time,dealt with a situation professionally. Don't feel you have to justify your actions to the few who never venture out in any more than a stiff breeze.
I think the video is a great learning tool.
I'm sure Matt H will continue to entertain us with his antics for years to come,gave me and my crew so many laughs on the round IOW.
Knowing a few who were present a call would have been made if needed.
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Old 24 October 2013, 09:21   #167
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You had a great time,dealt with a situation professionally. Don't feel you have to justify your actions to the few who never venture out in any more than a stiff breeze.
I think the video is a great learning tool.
I'm sure Matt H will continue to entertain us with his antics for years to come,gave me and my crew so many laughs on the round IOW.
Knowing a few who were present a call would have been made if needed.
Well said I have only met him once and I really enjoyed his company while socialising and also while he was helming my rib on the round Anglesey cruise last April great guy.

I'm sure that in the very near future he will have perfected a full overhead wave jump.

I'm still trying
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Old 24 October 2013, 10:03   #168
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aww shucks . thanks lads!
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Old 24 October 2013, 16:33   #169
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Well I will say he is very respectful driving other peoples boats and my missus has said a few times isn't it good how he always says when he is about to accelerate and turn left or right. Why can't you do that!

However he is still a rib nobber and doesn't need his ego massaging!
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Old 24 October 2013, 16:46   #170
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However he is still a rib nobber and doesn't need his ego massaging!
He's getting the beer next time we meet
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Old 24 October 2013, 17:52   #171
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Shitski.. Beer Yum Yum.!! ok will do if i do a barrel roll Steve its your round? Deal?
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Old 24 October 2013, 17:55   #172
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Shitski.. Beer Yum Yum.!! ok will do if i do a barrel roll Steve its your round? Deal?
If its caught on film .. yes Deal

So get out there practicing
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Old 24 October 2013, 17:59   #173
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Will do, its supposed to be nasty this weekend so will get the boys out again.. gotta suss out speed.amount of space needed for a complete roll/ angle of attack n shit first
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Old 24 October 2013, 18:56   #174
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Ok, so everyone seems to agree there was some useful footage there which might help people to understand (i) how to reduce their risk of capsize and (ii) what you can do once it happens; along with the accounts of those involved of what happened and lessons learned. I am sure that is a really useful resource for new and experienced members alike because I presume that very few people are willing to push their boat to (or beyond) the limit to find out first hand. So are those involved able to write a nice clear account of events and put the videos etc in to illustrate it so those of us who are too soft to learn first hand can benefit?

If you post it here (and maybe more than one of you wants to contribute) then I'll collate and move to a new closed thread it so it remains useful for future learning rather than a debate about whether it was good seamanship.
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Old 24 October 2013, 19:55   #175
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Ok, so everyone seems to agree there was some useful footage there which might help people to understand (i) how to reduce their risk of capsize and (ii) what you can do once it happens; along with the accounts of those involved of what happened and lessons learned. I am sure that is a really useful resource for new and experienced members alike because I presume that very few people are willing to push their boat to (or beyond) the limit to find out first hand. So are those involved able to write a nice clear account of events and put the videos etc in to illustrate it so those of us who are too soft to learn first hand can benefit?

If you post it here (and maybe more than one of you wants to contribute) then I'll collate and move to a new closed thread it so it remains useful for future learning rather than a debate about whether it was good seamanship.
I'll second that, it is not often it happens and it is even less often that it is caught on video so there is real educational value in it for all of us. So please lets have the videos back up.

Paul
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Old 24 October 2013, 20:13   #176
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Good plan Poly
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Old 24 October 2013, 20:16   #177
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Good idea, but I think it should be refilmed to make sure we get all the angles covered!
Happy to come out to assist in the making of the Flipper part two
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Old 24 October 2013, 20:21   #178
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Anyone can watch my footage and read my posts and comment.
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Old 24 October 2013, 20:32   #179
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Will do, its supposed to be nasty this weekend so will get the boys out again..
Hi Matt - We're out from Southampton in Baby Blue this Saturday running in the new engine - happy to video you trying again (I'll post it as being from AJ tho so he can get the grief if you're successful)
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Old 24 October 2013, 21:08   #180
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Matt, You haven't lost a tortoise have you?

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