Petrol Boat on fire

mccabe · 29 April 2006, 09:28

I was out on my Rib this evening and a man had a lucky escape from a sports boat with twin petrol inboards which went on fire as he left harbour on Lough Ree.Himself and his young son were picked up off the boat with a minute to spare before they would have had to jump!

Andy Moore · 29 April 2006, 10:23

How many of you guys carry a fire extinguisher?

Tideway · 29 April 2006, 10:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andy Moore

How many of you guys carry a fire extinguisher?

x3.

x2 small 5kg(?) ones on and inside the console, and a larger one for in a seat locker for the engine bay (discharged thorugh a small access hole into the bay). Plus engine vent blanking plates.

Petrol inboard engines scare me due to the flammability of the fuel and the way gas will sit in a boat bilge. Diesel seems much safer.

t

Nos4r2 · 29 April 2006, 10:44

I've got a 1kg dry powder extinguisher onboard and my electrics are nowhere near my tanks.

I'm kinda tempted to bolt a really small CO2 one to the side of my cowl and drill a hole in it so it's got an input into the cowl that won't leak water.

If an o/b is going to go up the last thing you'll want to do is remove the cowl and let more air in-IF you can remove it in time without getting roasted.

At least I might save the engine that way and a cheap CO2 extinguisher is only a tenner or so.

What do you guys think of the idea?

Jeff Pike · 29 April 2006, 11:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andy Moore

How many of you guys carry a fire extinguisher?

x3

x1 1Kg on transom mounted bracket. Can grab it in seconds.
x2 Boat Save Canisters kept in the jockey seat storage - supposed to suppress fire without damaging engine & electrics.

Just hope I never have to use them!

Hightower · 29 April 2006, 12:10

Is it not a requirment to have valid Insurance to have a permanant fire fully or semi automatic extiguisher system installed on inboard craft these days? Do you think they had one onboard?

Nos4r2 · 29 April 2006, 12:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hightower

Is it not a requirment to have valid Insurance to have a permanant fire fully or semi automatic extiguisher system installed on inboard craft these days? Do you think they had one onboard?

In all the insurance I've looked at it's only required on the engine bay. Anyone else seen any different?

BogMonster · 29 April 2006, 12:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andy Moore

How many of you guys carry a fire extinguisher?

Erm....

it's on the shopping list

I suppose you need to get a proper marine one with no corrosive bits on it, not much point in bolting an ordinary domestic power/CO2 extinguisher to a boat?

what are these Boat Save things, little CO2 canisters??

Bring back Halon!

codprawn · 29 April 2006, 13:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by BogMonster

Erm....

it's on the shopping list

I suppose you need to get a proper marine one with no corrosive bits on it, not much point in bolting an ordinary domestic power/CO2 extinguisher to a boat?

what are these Boat Save things, little CO2 canisters??

Bring back Halon!

Halon is the best ever - bloody Greens banning things - I am sure a burning car or RIB puts out far more crap than a Halon extinguisher.

Halon is still allowed for the Military - Aviation and other "high risk" areas - cos it's still the best!!!

I have 2x 2ltr foam and a Halon which I will keep hidden. Hate powder with a vengence - makes a hell of a mess and wrecks everything.

CO2 not much use on an open boat - ok in a closed engine room but you need 10kgs to equal 1kg of Halon.

The save boat things look a good idea - will carry one as well - they are also a kind of foam but they can be used just a few squirts at a time. Often you can catch a small electrical fire BEFORE it develops further - kill the power - a quick squirt and no mess.

As to marine types - a lot of the cheaper powder extinguishers are plastic so no probs - just HATE powder.

ashbypower · 29 April 2006, 13:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by codprawn

Halon is the best ever - bloody Greens banning things - I am sure a burning car or RIB puts out far more crap than a Halon extinguisher.

Halon is still allowed for the Military - Aviation and other "high risk" areas - cos it's still the best!!!

.

Errr No!! see here

Alice · 29 April 2006, 13:54

[url]A similar situation occured with a petrol spFuel leak to blame for explosion

Nearby CCTV cameras recorded the boat explosion
An explosion on board a motor boat in Cornwall which left a father and son with severe burns was caused by a fuel leak, according to preliminary reports.
The man and his nine-year-old son are being treated at a burns unit in Bristol after the 18ft boat exploded near Falmouth Marina on Tuesday.

The vessel, High Interest, was moored in Penryn River, near Falmouth Marina.

Coastguards are urging all boat users to carry out safety checks on their vessels following the incident.

There are compartments in vessels that can contain fumes from gas or petrol

Ken Bazeley, Coastguard
Emergency services were alerted to the explosion after a report from a nearby yacht, the Black Swan, at about 1400 BST on Tuesday.

Witnesses said the pair had been on board for just five minutes before the explosion.

They then reported seeing the young boy jump from the boat into the water, followed shortly afterwards by his father, believed to be in his 50s. They also saw a large amount of black smoke and a plume of fire.

The Falmouth Coastguard Rescue Team was immediately alerted to the incident.

A rescue helicopter from RNAS Culdrose was scrambled and landed at a nearby youth club car park before airlifting the pair to hospital. Two local RNLI lifeboats also attended.

The father and son were taken to the Royal Cornwall Hospital at Treliske before being transferred to the specialist burns unit at Bristol's Frenchay Hospital.

The boy suffered 50% burns to his body, while his father suffered 30% burns. The boy is said to be in a poorly stable condition. His father is in a stable condition.

An investigation by Cornwall Fire Brigade into the incident has revealed a fuel leak was to blame for the explosion.

The boat was taken to shore for fire investigators to examine
It is thought that petrol vapour gathered in the bottom of the boat and was ignited when the engine was switched on.

The Marine Accident Investigation Branch has been informed.

Coastguard Ken Bazeley said: "Any vessel, particularly one which is fuel-powered and may contain gas, should be checked regularly, certainly every time the vessel is used.

"There are compartments in vessels that can contain fumes from gas or petrol. They should be ventilated.

"Fuel lines should be continuous and not have too many joins in them, and gas detectors are a good thing to have at the bottom of vessels to warn of any build up of explosive chemicals."

The RNLI is also visiting Falmouth this week to drive home the safety message to pleasure craft users during the town's Regatta Week.

ortsboat in Penryn, Cornwall.

jgrace · 29 April 2006, 14:23

The boat shown at the top of this thread had inboards. But would an outboard be any safer?

I've always assumed (or hoped) that an engine fire in an outboard could probably be contained at the transom and was not likely to spread to the main tank if that tank was some distance from the engine (ie under the jockey console). But maybe that's just wishful thinking. Anyone got an opinion?

Jim

codprawn · 29 April 2006, 14:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by ashbypower

Errr No!! see here

This is fairly recent - April last year - there is still provision withinn the law that the Military can still use them - it is just a new MOD policy!!!

ashbypower · 29 April 2006, 16:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by codprawn

This is fairly recent - April last year - there is still provision withinn the law that the Military can still use them - it is just a new MOD policy!!!

I think you'll fine MoD is MANDATED to follow (and colpy with) the montreal protocol and European legislation!! MoD Policy Document Yes Government Mandate YES!!

Alice · 29 April 2006, 16:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by jgrace

The boat shown at the top of this thread had inboards. But would an outboard be any safer?

I've always assumed (or hoped) that an engine fire in an outboard could probably be contained at the transom and was not likely to spread to the main tank if that tank was some distance from the engine (ie under the jockey console). But maybe that's just wishful thinking. Anyone got an opinion?

Jim

Yeah, an outboard doesn't have the same potential for an explosion as an inboard. Any fuel leak on an outboard boat should be in the open and not in the same area as a source of spark ie. the starter motor. That's why petrol inboard boats are fitted with bilge blowers which remove any fuel vapour prior to starting.

jgrace · 29 April 2006, 16:33

Should one fit a fuelcock on the fuel line to the outboard specifically to isolate it if it catches fire?

I've already got a fuel/water separator plus an extra filter on the line, I suppose another gubbins wouldn't go amiss.

codprawn · 29 April 2006, 20:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by ashbypower

I think you'll fine MoD is MANDATED to follow (and colpy with) the montreal protocol and European legislation!! MoD Policy Document Yes Government Mandate YES!!

Not what I have seen

"Under EC Regulation 2037/2000 on substances that deplete the ozone layer, halon fire-protection systems and fire extinguishers were required to be decommissioned by31 st December 2003, and the halons recovered. It is now illegal to use such extinguishers, but it is not illegal to possess them. There are a few exemptions but these are mainly military uses.

EC Regulation 2037/2000 does not set a deadline for the recovery of halon."

There was also something somewhere about aircraft use as well.

ashbypower · 29 April 2006, 20:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by codprawn

Not what I have seen

"Under EC Regulation 2037/2000 on substances that deplete the ozone layer, halon fire-protection systems and fire extinguishers were required to be decommissioned by31 st December 2003, and the halons recovered. It is now illegal to use such extinguishers, but it is not illegal to possess them. There are a few exemptions but these are mainly military uses.

EC Regulation 2037/2000 does not set a deadline for the recovery of halon."

There was also something somewhere about aircraft use as well.

Ahh a case of selective Quoting
Read the whole thing here http://www.mod.uk/NR/rdonlyres/92342...6/0/Leaf11.pdf

PS I am currently project manager for a Major Halon replacement programme for the MOD Land systems

codprawn · 29 April 2006, 21:08

Not selective quoting at all. It still looks like it's a question of choice - they could still use it if they wished but of course the MOD have to be seen to be green" as well.

Of course you must not damage the environment - unless you blow it up!!!

codprawn · 29 April 2006, 21:16

Just found it - "critical uses of halon"

Annex 3.1: Critical uses of halon 1211

* In hand held fire extinguishers and fixed fire extinguisher equipment for engines for use on board aircraft

* In aircraft for the protection of crew compartments, engine nacelles, cargo bays and dry bays

* In fire extinguishers essential to personal safety used for initial extinguishing by fire brigades

* In military and police fire extinguishers for use on persons

Annex 3.2: Critical uses of halon 1301

* In aircraft for the protection of crew compartments, engine nacelles, cargo bays and dry bays

* In military land vehicles and naval vessels for the protection of spaces occupied by personnel and engine compartments

* For the making inert of occupied spaces where flammable liquid and/or gas release could occur in the military and oil, gas and petrochemical sector and in existing cargo ships

* For the making inert of existing manned communication and command centres of the armed forces or others, essential for national security

* For the making inert of spaces where there may be a risk of dispersion of radioactive matter

* In the Channel Tunnel and associated installations and rolling stock