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Old 18 April 2007, 10:47   #1
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Woild you buy a diesel rib NOW?

This is a bit of a hypothetical question since I don't actually have any cash to buy a diesel rib with now. But if you did - is it likely to devalue significantly when HMCR finally work out what to do about the red diesel issue.

Please lets not get into an argument about the rights and wrongs or removing the derogation on red.

At the time the red fuel issue first came to the fore - there was a lot of "hype" about it devaluing diesel boats. Any such argument obviously depends on the actual increase in tax - but lets assume the "worst case" and leisure users are paying road prices.

Assuming marine diesel is still available on the dockside then a few years from now I aspire to own a diesel rib for cruising in the West coast of Scotland. This has more to do with access to fuel than economics.

So would I be better holding off until HMCR introduce the new rules OR in the opinion of the ribnetters - is the value of diesel ribs likely to remain unaffected especially those on the West Coast / Ireland where it is the most easily accessible fuel?

Whilst I can't afford e.g. a nice Redbay diesel right now - I need to include this in my strategic planning for negotiations with the keeper of the purse (aka Mrs Polwart).
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Old 18 April 2007, 11:31   #2
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I am no expert but surely diesel ribs will still be significantly less expensive to run due to the efficency of a diesel over an equivalent petrol engine?

Chris
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Old 18 April 2007, 11:49   #3
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I haven't heard how they plan to implement the new rules. Will they abolish red diesel for marine use, and make commercial users claim back the duty as with petrol? Or will they keep red diesel on the quayside, but only for commercial users?

If diesel remains as readily available as it is now, then I wouldn't expect diesel RIBs to lose much value (although they would probably be harder to sell in the Solent due to the easy availability of petrol).

On the other hand if diesel becomes as hard to get at the quayside as petrol is now, then I can't see many people wanting diesel RIBs.

Have any details actually been published yet?

John
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Old 18 April 2007, 12:01   #4
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Hmmm.....If I was buying a boat now I think I would still go diesel. I do like the grunt it has and, since I like mechanical things, the diesel installation gives me a pleasure that the outboard did not give. I guess that's just a personal thing. I do miss the ability to accelerate like a bat out of hell and the ability to cruise at about 40 because the hull works so much better at that speed than the 30 I currently cruise at. However, sea conditions sometimes prevent the higher speed anyway so it's not at the top of my list. Also, I've been trying hard to slow down and loose that frantic way life currently seems to be so having an imposed limit is no bad thing.

The perceived lack of space because of the engine compartment is not an issue if it is designed with thought and, in some ways, it is better than the conglomeration of the fuel lines, control cables, fuel filters etc. which make up that generally gruby or greasy area at the stern of an outboard powered boat. The nicer outboard installations have the engines mounted in their own area to overcome the problems of the clutter but then that area of the boat is removed from general use too. Also, you still have to house the battery, have access to fuel tanking and fuel filling and that can all be under cover in the engine compartment.

The boat also handles better because of the lower CG that a diesel installation gives.

On the down side, the diesel installation is vulnerable. The engine is not watertight as an outboard is and it is also below water level so all possibilities need to be considered and precautions taken.

The boat is also much heavier and driving, especially at close quarters, needs to be done with more care.

As for access to fuel, on the west coast there is no way at present you could cruise extensively without fueling hassle with petrol engines. On the plus side, carrying jerry cans does give you some exercise. None of us know what the diesel situation will settle to in the more remote parts but I'd be surprised if boat owners will be forced to fuel at a petrol station. There are a good number of larger private vessels on the west coast which carry fuel in quantities of thousands of litres and I don't see them being expected to carry it 20lts at a time in jerry cans.

That'll do for now....
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Old 18 April 2007, 12:37   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jwalker View Post
There are a good number of larger private vessels on the west coast which carry fuel in quantities of thousands of litres and I don't see them being expected to carry it 20lts at a time in jerry cans.
Ah, there you go being logical again. I hope you are right, but I wouldn't bank on it!

John
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Old 18 April 2007, 12:43   #6
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I hope diesel gets taxed and all the RIBs become worthless cos then with diesel at 40p a litre and petrol at 71p a litre, I can pick up a bargain diesel engined RIB and cut my running costs to about 25% of what they are now

Coat on and heading for the door before the lynching mob gathers strength
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Old 18 April 2007, 13:04   #7
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hypothetically, yes. It's not going to make a lot off difference unless you have something with 2000hp and then chances are, you can afford it anyway.
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Old 18 April 2007, 13:46   #8
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Have any details actually been published yet?
No - noone knows. I guess the possibilities are:
  1. white fuel only for private users - in many cases this would mean road fuel (i.e. from a petrol station). but in some places marinas would convert.
  2. white fuel for everyone and commercial users reclaim. At face value - the logical way - but decontaminating could be very expensive - and difficult to deal with people filling up in the CIs legitamitely with red.
  3. red for everyone but charged at different rates depending on use (this is what PBO are apparently lobying for).

I am assuming that there won't become a complete shortage on the west coast as there are a large number of marinas who will need to cater for the diesel WAFIs one way or the other.
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Old 18 April 2007, 13:47   #9
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I hope diesel gets taxed and all the RIBs become worthless cos then with diesel at 40p a litre and petrol at 71p a litre, I can pick up a bargain diesel engined RIB and cut my running costs to about 25% of what they are now

Coat on and heading for the door before the lynching mob gathers strength
don't worry stephen it will still cost you k's to get it shipped to you
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Old 18 April 2007, 13:51   #10
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JW - all logical reasons for chosing diesel - which I would agree with (having a diesel mechanic as a father is another one!). but if you currently had an o/board boat would you mae the switch now or hold off 2 years in the hope that the price falls?
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