Woild you buy a diesel rib NOW?

[Pete7]

Originally Posted by RIVA

no one ever takes into account the price of maintaning a deisel rib ??

so true, I dread to think what the maintenance costs have been over the last 26 years on my diesel engine and I suppose it will need replacing or rebuilding sometime in the next 26 years, which should cost about half the price of a new Evinrude 200 hp outboard.

Will people continue to build diesel ribs? probably, but they will be for a specific reason, afterall there aren't that many now so tend to be for folk who want range and ease of fueling. It will be interesting to see if the availability of petrol at waterside locations increases over the next 5 years and if so then perhaps more motor boats in the sub 30 foot category will be bought with petrol engines. If that happens outboard ribs could be the way forward for the majority.

Pete

[RIVA]

yes but no one buys yours as a lesure rib , you need to price things realisticly , yammaha , yanmar, volvo , the £££££ is sending a shiver up my spine now

[Poly]

Originally Posted by RIVA

if i had the 20k extra capital , and did more than 250hrs per year .
then yes . if not no it does not make finacial sence .

no one ever takes into account the price of maintaning a deisel rib ??
and the fact they dont sell second hand as well as a outboard so think carefully

RIVA - thanks for that... ...more of an argument not to buy a diesel rib in general rather than not buy one now due to the potential loss in value in a year or two when the tax issue is resolved. And more importantly this is an argument not to buy a NEW diesel rib - but sounds like an argument for buying a 2nd hand one.

I'm not sure if the local market in the west of scotland and ireland agrees with the devaluing argument? perhaps i'm wrong.

Why is a diesel rib so much more expensive to maintain - is it becuase the engineer has to come to you rather than the otherway round?

[Nos4r2]

Originally Posted by Polwart

Why is a diesel rib so much more expensive to maintain - is it becuase the engineer has to come to you rather than the otherway round?

Are you thinking of boats too big to trailer?

[jwalker]

Originally Posted by Polwart

Why is a diesel rib so much more expensive to maintain ..

I don't think it is more expensive to maintain. You could make it expensive if you choose to use dealers who rip you off. It's just a diesel engine. Sump oil, oil filter, fuel filter, air filter and rocker clearance adjustment every couple of years, just like a car. The drive needs the bellows replaced every couple of years and an oil change occasionally.

Of course, if you buy one of those engine drive combinations which fail regularly it might cost you a bit more. But the information is so well documented, it would be silly to do that.

[jwalker]

There is another thing, I never felt totally at ease with 50 gallons of petrol sloshing about in my previous rib.

[Pete7]

Originally Posted by Polwart

I'm not sure if the local market in the west of scotland and ireland agrees with the devaluing argument? perhaps i'm wrong.

Agreed, I just can't see the value of a big Redbay with a couple diesels suddenly dropping in price, there will always be a demand albeit from a limited market, but then there aren't many about, supply/demand?

Why is a diesel rib so much more expensive to maintain - is it becuase the engineer has to come to you rather than the otherway round?

Volvo charge a similar price for servicing if they come to you rather than you taking the boat to them. Are they really that much more to service over a modern injection outboard? and is the extra a major part of the cost of boat ownership, I suspect not, certainly not if a boat is moored in a South Coast boatyard.

Pete

[DGR]

In principle I completely agree with JW - but as a commercial user, diesel is even more the way to go for me. And (agreeing again) servicing costs are no more than any other engine - I just stay away from the idiots who charge the earth, and (I suspect) often do nothing to your engine anyway. I use a local guy, and give him a hand while its being done.

On the diesel fuel issue itself - getting my 7.8 metre RIB refuelled at the petrol station wouldn't really work - and as there is only diesel on the harbour, it's a no brainer. As for the white/red thing, I understand that it will all be white, and commercial users would reclaim as required. There would be no requirement to de-contaminate, as red wouldn't be available in the mainland UK - and if you fuelled abroad - so what? C&E will assume you filled up abroad, and will have paid relevant duty there - exactly the same as when you fill your car on the continent or the CI.

Local farmers are laughing their socks off, because they will be able to claim back all of the duty on their fuel as there will be no difference between the white for your combine harvester, and the white for your road vehicle...

D...

[Poly]

Originally Posted by jwalker

There is another thing, I never felt totally at ease with 50 gallons of petrol sloshing about in my previous rib.

you need to open the benson and hedges and chill out a little

[Poly]

Originally Posted by DGR

Local farmers are laughing their socks off, because they will be able to claim back all of the duty on their fuel as there will be no difference between the white for your combine harvester, and the white for your road vehicle...

at the risk of taking the thread off at a tangent -- I don't think the proposals have anything to do with red for agri use.

[Poly]

Originally Posted by Pete7

Agreed, I just can't see the value of a big Redbay with a couple diesels suddenly dropping in price, there will always be a demand albeit from a limited market, but then there aren't many about, supply/demand?

one engine would be quite sufficient - I don't want to appear greedy!

Volvo charge a similar price for servicing if they come to you rather than you taking the boat to them. Are they really that much more to service over a modern injection outboard? and is the extra a major part of the cost of boat ownership, I suspect not, certainly not if a boat is moored in a South Coast boatyard.

Thats what I thought and JW and DGR are saying the same - I must have been reading too much between the lines in RIVAs post - i thought he was implying that diesels cost more to maintain.

[Poly]

Originally Posted by Nos4r2

Are you thinking of boats too big to trailer?

Good point Nos. Not sure what I was thinking...

[DGR]

Originally Posted by Polwart

at the risk of taking the thread off at a tangent -- I don't think the proposals have anything to do with red for agri use.

Yes they do - it is a blanket removal of derogation for red diesel - not just for marine use. There will only be one type of diesel that you will be able to buy - which will be white.

D...

[Poly]

Originally Posted by DGR

Yes they do - it is a blanket removal of derogation for red diesel - not just for marine use. There will only be one type of diesel that you will be able to buy - which will be white.

D...

I think you will find that the "derogration" only applied to Marine Leisure Use in the first place. I am certain your source of information is wrong. Red will still be available for agri use etc as it is across europe.

[Nos4r2]

Originally Posted by Polwart

I think you will find that the "derogration" only applied to Marine Leisure Use in the first place. I am certain your source of information is wrong. Red will still be available for agri use etc as it is across europe.

And on the quayside in the channel islands, rendering enforcement impossible...?

Sooooo.... Anyone know a friendly farmer?

[rickuk3]

Originally Posted by Polwart

I think you will find that the "derogration" only applied to Marine Leisure Use in the first place. I am certain your source of information is wrong. Red will still be available for agri use etc as it is across europe.

It applied to marine and aviation, never seen a diesel plane though

[Gentiana]

Originally Posted by rickuk3

It applied to marine and aviation, never seen a diesel plane though

Junkers dive bomber

Stalingrad vs Hitler's crew

[Pete7]

Originally Posted by Polwart

Thats what I thought and JW and DGR are saying the same - I must have been reading too much between the lines in RIVAs post - i thought he was implying that diesels cost more to maintain.

A nice second hand Redbay (or perhaps a Parker) with a single Yamaha diesel would be a great rib especially up in the wilds of Scotland. Dave Simmons has another interesting little rib, a 6m Solent with the Merc 1.7L diesel, astonishing speed and acceleration for a little engine and burns something like 9 litres an hour. You would be pushed to copy that with even a modern injected outboard.

Originally Posted by RIVA

yes but no one buys yours as a lesure rib

As for the Pacific 22s, well peeps buy them for private use because they are relatively cheap so a lot of diesel boat for your money. Certainly JBT have sold quite a few over the years. Not the fastest, so cruise at 24-25 knots but tough as old boots, strange that everyone lets me tie up first against the wall in Yarmouth and then everyone rafts along side

Pete

[DGR]

Originally Posted by Polwart

I think you will find that the "derogration" only applied to Marine Leisure Use in the first place. I am certain your source of information is wrong. Red will still be available for agri use etc as it is across europe.

OK - I thought it was all red diesel judging by the conversation I had with a couple of local red diesel users the other day!! I could well be wrong......

But if that is right, and the red remains for agri and commercial use, then enforcing it will be fairly impossible.

D...

[codprawn]

Originally Posted by rickuk3

It applied to marine and aviation, never seen a diesel plane though

Most jet aircraft will run on diesel - it is very similar to kerosene. It isn't really advised but most military helicopters can use it without too many problems.