Winching.

cuttlefish · 01 October 2006, 20:47

Hi,
Has anybody got any knowledge of how to set up a situation to winch a rib onto a beach?
Tx.
Rupert.

BogMonster · 02 October 2006, 02:50

I would have thought the easiest thing would be to have an old Land Rover or something, with an electric winch on the front?

My concern on my one would be the strength of the bow eye, it creaks a bit when you take up the strain on the trailer. Also if you are using a big electric winch on a vehicle I guess you'd have to be careful as a 9000lb winch would rip the bow eye right out if you weren't careful!

Tim M · 02 October 2006, 10:02

You might want to check your bow eye if its loose or makes interesting noises; it's there to winch the boat with and should be strong enough to support the boat under a tow/winch.

jwalker · 02 October 2006, 11:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by BogMonster

My concern on my one would be the strength of the bow eye, it creaks a bit when you take up the strain on the trailer.

Stephen, is the bow eye high up? If so, you need to fit one that is just above deck level with a spreader plate inside. This gives you the stongest point and, depending on the height of your winch, tends to lift the front of the boat as you winch it in.

BogMonster · 02 October 2006, 11:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim M

You might want to check your bow eye if its loose or makes interesting noises; it's there to winch the boat with and should be strong enough to support the boat under a tow/winch.

It just flexes a bit (only a small amount) when you really take up the strain to make sure the boat is tight against the front of the trailer. You're right, I should check it properly ... though being a bunk trailer there is no real danger of the boat departing astern on the public highway, the damn thing is hard enough to get off when half of it is afloat sometimes!

jwalker yes it is right up under the toobs on mine and the backing plate is nothing to write home about either....

When I recover mine I just drive it up the trailer till the 90 starts to move forwards so I don't actually use the winch for recovering it at all, but I see where you are coming from regarding the angle of pull. At the moment the pull is almost exactly horizontal. I suppose having more than one bow eye could be no bad thing anyway!

Sorry Rupert, hijacking the thread a bit here

Another option for winching onto a beach if nothing else was available might be a small Tirfor type hand winch and a ground anchor? Though how you would then get it back into the water is worth considering...!

cuttlefish · 02 October 2006, 13:19

some interesting solutions there. I don't think the landrover idea can work because there is no access to the beach (it is a steep walk down, and further, you can't take cars - it is on Sark).
Stephen's notion of a Tirfor type hand winch and a ground anchor seems interesting, but of course I need to winch the rib in AND out of the water. I'll try to find out more about it. The idea of winching it in is to safeguard during heavy swell and drastic SW winds. Several boats got lost last year, or bashed onto the rocks.
I wanted to post a picture of the beach we have in mind, but I can't find the photo yet. Maybe later.

Rupert.

BogMonster · 02 October 2006, 13:25

If it is only for "emergency" use I suppose you can always work on the basis that your no. 1 priority is to get it out of the water to preserve it, and getting it back in again afterwards is less important....

If you could set up a really strong mooring point offshore than you could run a line from the beached boat out to that, through a snatch block and back to the winch (of whatever sort you use) on the beach and pull the boat back in to the water that way

you'd just need a little tender or some other way of getting out to the buoy to put the line on.

The hand winch I settled on for a backup in my Land Rover (have a hydraulic winch on the front) is this one: T-Max Hand Winch available from various 4x4 suppliers in the UK, mine came from Bearmach plc. I have the middle one in the range but depending on the weight of your rib the smallest one would probably be ok.

One advantage of a powered drum winch is that you could use Dyneema or one of the other synthetic winch lines which would remove any problems with salt water corrosion on the cable. You can't use synth line in a hand winch (not that type anyway - all the other "rope hoist" hand winches e.g. Tirfor work in the same way as far as I know) and you aren't supposed to lubricate the cables in those either as the winch grips the cable using a "hand over hand" method and greasing it doesn't help!

cuttlefish · 02 October 2006, 14:05

OK,
Here is a pic of the beach (please ignore the tourists in this case) where we want to put the winch. If, as Stephen says, I can get a mooring just out before those rocks on the left, I would get a certain amount protection until the real gales blow up. Then I could winch it in for emergency purposes.
The only problem is that when the boat is winched in (or when I am away in the UK or France), someone else might use the mooring (it won't have my name on it), and when I get back, perhaps late at night, I have no mooring.
Any ideas?
Thanks,
R.

cuttlefish · 02 October 2006, 14:06

The system would not let me upload the file because it is too large.
Rupert.

BogMonster · 02 October 2006, 14:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by rupert

OK,
Here is a pic of the beach (please ignore the tourists in this case) where we want to put the winch. If, as Stephen says, I can get a mooring just out before those rocks on the left, I would get a certain amount protection until the real gales blow up. Then I could winch it in for emergency purposes.
The only problem is that when the boat is winched in (or when I am away in the UK or France), someone else might use the mooring (it won't have my name on it), and when I get back, perhaps late at night, I have no mooring.
Any ideas?
Thanks,
R.

Put a sign on it saying "Private mooring belonging to Rupert, any git who uses this without permission will be released and dashed to bits on those rocks over there --->>>" I bet they only test your resolve once

You need to reduce to 640x480 photo size, alternatively you can host it on www.photobucket.com which is free, and link to that.

cuttlefish · 02 October 2006, 14:37

Stephen.
I'll try that if they give me permission (Sark are a bit funny about these things). Of course, the only other problem is that they might not understand English (:
R.

codprawn · 02 October 2006, 21:56

Tirfors are great - I have 5 of them but they are very slow!!! You can and should lube the cable Stephen - no probs at all - it doesn't rely on friction. Instead of grease thoug use proper wire rope lube - a lot less messy.

To haul a boat up a beach I think the baby Tirfors would be the best - they are so small they will fit in a briefcase - have used mine for all sorts of things - most recently moving a 5 ton milling machine and a streched Limo up a steep drive.

http://www.tractel.com/fr/proddetail.php?prod=11410

Just keep your eye on Ebay.

To be honest though the Tirfor may be a bit slow for this - why not use a capstan type sail winch? Saw them in good use today - a mates large 55' Ketch had run aground and he pulled it off the mud with a sail winch and a long rope!!!

BogMonster · 02 October 2006, 23:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by codprawn

Tirfors are great - I have 5 of them but they are very slow!!! You can and should lube the cable Stephen - no probs at all - it doesn't rely on friction. Instead of grease thoug use proper wire rope lube - a lot less messy.

The book for mine said it should not be lubricated. As it lives in a bike tyre in the roof of my garage, corrosion isn't really an issue, but it would be if used in salt water...

You are right though, they are slow.

codprawn · 03 October 2006, 03:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by BogMonster

The book for mine said it should not be lubricated. As it lives in a bike tyre in the roof of my garage, corrosion isn't really an issue, but it would be if used in salt water...

You are right though, they are slow.

Yes but you don't have the genuine Tirfor - sometimes things are lost with translation!!!

Storing in a tyre is great - you can just roll it to where you want - with 100m of 11mm wire it gets pretty heavy!!!

"Wire rope should always be reeled and unreeled in a straight line to prevent loops and kinks and should be coiled up for storage after use. Tirfor wire rope should never be used as a sling and should not be subjected to abrasion by rubbing it over sharp edges. For extended life and better performance, it is recommended that the wire rope be wiped clean before use and lubricated from time to time. If there are broken wires or strands or if the rope is untwisted, kinked or birdcaged, it is important that the rope be replaced immediately."

Useful link here regarding Tirfor use etc

http://www.hantsfire.gov.uk/theservi...ts.htm?id=8973

"Excess lubrication should be avoided but in any event cannot cause the wire rope to slip."

BogMonster · 03 October 2006, 09:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by codprawn

Yes but you don't have the genuine Tirfor - sometimes things are lost with translation!!!

Something like 2/3 of the price was lost, which was the main issue

The manual was written by somebody whose principal language was some dialect of yingtonese I think

Jelly · 03 October 2006, 10:36

Guys,
Tirfors are great but they are just too slow to but a boat up a beach especially if there is a break running.
The sailing club in Deal launch and recover over a big shingle beach, they have runners using lengths of gas pipe cut in half.
They have a big winch at the top top of the beach and you have to time your approach so the receading wave leaves you high and dry and the winch has to be fast enough to pull you clear before the next wave fills the boat up !!
I have also seen a bridle made up running from the stern D rings round the hull and out the bow eye spreading the load rounf the hull. Not sure I would want it there all the time though.
Jelly

cuttlefish · 04 October 2006, 16:44

a lot of good ideas to look into here.
Rupert.