Who remembers "Seamanship"?

[SeaSkills]

From some of the threads on this forum recently (and from some discussions outside of this forum) I can't help wondering what has happened to the idea of good seamanship. Is it unfashionable nowadays to talk about having respect for the sea, about driving with care, and about avoiding danger? There seems to be a body of opinion that RIBs are actually much safer than they really are, and that no matter what happens you'll be OK if you're in a RIB.

Of course this only applies to a few, but it does seem to be more prevalent than it was just a few years ago. I don't really know why this is. I read that - paradoxically - the increased attention to Health and Safety has meant that people (especially young people) are not as skilled as they used to be in identifying danger for themselves, and also the rescue services are so much more efficient that there is an assumption that there is always someone there to bail you out if you get into trouble.

[Mollers]

I think I was trying to make a similar point in a rather less subtle way when suggesting that ramming one's boat into the sea and ripping the screen off is avoidable. Others disagree.

[JSP]

You'll find that allot of the divide between Sail boat owners and power boat owners is due to the same thing. Although it's not fair to tar everyone with the same brush just because of a pre conceived idea or seeing a few bad eggs. But sadly many people who sail do.
I contacted a the owners of a boat club who have a slipway about 2 miles away from my front door. I was asked what boat I would be launching and when I mentioned RIB I was told that this was a sail only club and they didn't suffer fools in rubber rings!

My brother has told me that when he's been out sailing he has been put in some dangerous positions by people who don't know the very basics of giving way to sail.

[bedajim]

Originally Posted by JSP

You'll find that allot of the divide between Sail boat owners and power boat owners is due to the same thing. Although it's not fair to tar everyone with the same brush just because of a pre conceived idea or seeing a few bad eggs. But sadly many people who sail do.
I contacted a the owners of a boat club who have a slipway about 2 miles away from my front door. I was asked what boat I would be launching and when I mentioned RIB I was told that this was a sail only club and they didn't suffer fools in rubber rings!

My brother has told me that when he's been out sailing he has been put in some dangerous positions by people who don't know the very basics of giving way to sail.

Giving way to sail is one thing but putting a washing line on your boat does not give you god given rights, I see alot of bad seamanship from all types and size of craft

[JSP]

Oh I agree, some of the things I've seen and heard about is amazing. But if your trying to keep in a very narrow channel in a 38ft sailing yacht and some one force you to tack hard then it really does get very hairy. So it's not god given rights but common sense.

[Poly]

Originally Posted by JSP

Oh I agree, some of the things I've seen and heard about is amazing. But if your trying to keep in a very narrow channel in a 38ft sailing yacht and some one force you to tack hard then it really does get very hairy. So it's not god given rights but common sense.

although some people might argue that good seamanship would either be to preempt the stupid mobo or use the engine to navigate very narrow channels in busy waters where other craft are likely to make navigation complicated.

[bedajim]

Originally Posted by JSP

Oh I agree, some of the things I've seen and heard about is amazing. But if your trying to keep in a very narrow channel in a 38ft sailing yacht and some one force you to tack hard then it really does get very hairy. So it's not god given rights but common sense.

Yep but motoring with the sail up and claiming to be a sailing boat is taking the too

[JSP]

A sailing boat under power is not sailing so would give way to sail as well. And no you wouldn't sail a narrow channel in busy waters. But you would if it wasn't busy and then a jet ski/power boat comes out of no where.

[Ian M]

Originally Posted by bedajim

Yep but motoring with the sail up and claiming to be a sailing boat is taking the too

And pound to a penny there was no triangle in the rigging either

[willk]

Originally Posted by Mollers

I think I was trying to make a similar point in a rather less subtle way when suggesting that ramming one's boat into the sea and ripping the screen off is avoidable. Others disagree.

Reading those posts in sequence would suggest that perhaps the lack of subtlety was what they/we disagreed with. It's like an new Etec owner asking the forum how to winterise his engine. "RTFM" immediately springs to mind but the answers tend to be gentler, and the lesson is easier to learn.....

[Nos4r2]

Originally Posted by JSP

And no you wouldn't sail a narrow channel in busy waters.

You've not sailed down south for a while then? The god-given right of every chinless wonder with a bray far exceeding Shrek's friend to tack across every busy channel is regularly asserted.

[Bigmuz7]

Hmm interesting thread .. I cant help feeling that a lot of your thinking Ian could be applied to a lot about society today.. I for one have a foot in both camps of seamanship, sail, and rib,.

If the general assumption is that ribbers are less 'educated' ,its to my mind,.. unfounded, Yachties are guilty of as many misdemeanours, some sailors are just plain 'ignorant'

Last week .. we had a situation where sailors piled into a berth without noticing we had a swinging mooring, and were very negligent of our needs,.. needless to say kedge anchor was deployed to prevent us hitting them, but despite the fact we were anchored well before them,.. they kept piling in,.. so I think the rules of the sea and etiquette are definitely going .. only their premiums for the damage they have to pay for, will perhaps make them think, and perhaps therein lies a part of the problem.

Having being brought up on the briney I have to say I've made it home for my lunch, when others would have had me lost at sea there are a lot of people out there who dont realise the severity of what the sea can do.

Just a couple of months ago, whilst fishing, we took a force six breaker broadside,. we made our way out of it with a boat full of water,.. and thanked our skills and preparation for what was always an inevitability in the place we were fishing. I heard the sound of my grand fathers voice laughing at me, but,.. with a sound of confidence, that he was satisfied, that it was a lesson learned, as he would have said,... but in his day , his boat was only made of wood ! We must be wimps compared to some of them

[JSP]

I think everyone would agree that this between sailing and power is nonsense. I know that some people with sail boats think they are boating the only way boating should be done and you will give way (bit like inner-city bus drivers). And some power boaters are the hooded joy riders of the sea's.
But as Bigmuz said, it's just like the whole society. Mods and rockers, hoodies and chavs, Bert and Ernie.
But the true boater, no matter how he's being pushed along will have respect for his own safety and everyone else at sea.

[JSP]

Originally Posted by Nos4r2

You've not sailed down south for a while then? The god-given right of every chinless wonder with a bray far exceeding Shrek's friend to tack across every busy channel is regularly asserted.

No, never have but I've heard the stories.
You get idiots everywhere though, I sat on my dads boat once 2 hours before high tide and watched some complete idiots racing to get out of the dock gates. You normally get one or two but on this day they all seemed to try and go at once. Tiny little sail boats with 4hp outboards trying to get through the narrow gates at full wack before a huge bayliner, only to find that little handle he'd found flushed the toilet and wasn't a handbrake.
Two similar sized yachts, two similar Tom Hankers stood on the fly bridges, one hand on the wheel shouting at each other as they both motored towards the local surveyor boat that looks after the wind turbines.
Best of all was this guy in a broom, bounced off 3 boats, the wall which made his poor little dog go over board (which the marina launch boat retrieved) only to finally get out only to be brought back a few hours later by the lifeboat because he'd ran aground in morcambe bay because he was to busy trying to get his radar working.

Going out in boats is best done during the early hours on week days

[Mollers]

Originally Posted by willk

Reading those posts in sequence would suggest that perhaps the lack of subtlety was what they/we disagreed with. It's like an new Etec owner asking the forum how to winterise his engine. "RTFM" immediately springs to mind but the answers tend to be gentler, and the lesson is easier to learn.....

My lessons are learnt the hard way, not 'RTFM'. How about yourself?..........

It's nothing 'like' an Etec owner that can't be arsed to 'RTFM', but knows how to not bury his boat.

willk, hop aboard the 'bollocks' bandwagon if that's where you feel most comfortable, I wont be joining you.
So, if I don't 'toe' the majority line, I'm going to become an object of ridicule from the likes of yourself and other 'bandwagon' hoppers that spend a great deal more time key tapping than experiencing the pastime which they speak of so authoritatively.

It's a shame that there's not a 'w**ker' smilie on this site.

[willk]

Originally Posted by Mollers

My lessons are learnt the hard way, not 'RTFM'. How about yourself?..........

It's nothing 'like' an Etec owner that can't be arsed to 'RTFM', but knows how to not bury his boat.

willk, hop aboard the 'bollocks' bandwagon if that's where you feel most comfortable, I wont be joining you.
So, if I don't 'toe' the majority line, I'm going to become an object of ridicule from the likes of yourself and other 'bandwagon' hoppers that spend a great deal more time key tapping than experiencing the pastime which they speak of so authoritatively.

It's a shame that there's not a 'w**ker' smilie on this site.

Yep, that's about what I expected!

Ok, I'm your Huckleberry...


http://rib.net/forum/showthread.php?t=26435

If you wait two and a half years for your first saltwater service, it will indeed, be a hard learned lesson. Myself? I read TFM.
Oh, and they haven't even INVENTED the smilie we need.

Out.

[Nos4r2]

Girls, claws away please...

[Mollers]

Originally Posted by willk

Oh, and they haven't even INVENTED the smilie we need.

Out.

'We' eh.

[Richard Selman]

Also a sailor. When I bought my first catamaran I had a few close calls when caught out in big winds. Once had to abandon it inverted tied to a tanker bouy just south of Largs after it did a reverse pitch pole to windward when a F7 squall hit the fleet. Flipped so fast and turtled that my crew got partially stuck under the boat in the ropes and it spooked him a bit. Got it back with the help of two RIBs a few hours later. Worked out what I did wrong and know what to do the next time. Would not have learnt how to sail it properly if I had not pushed it a bit each time and taken some risks. Now can handle nasty weather without much fear of a capsize or breakage. I could have played safe and forever sailed a wayfarer or equivalent tub with a big reef in the sail.

Mollers - There is a difference between someone who puts the necks and gear of others at risk and someone who limits the risks to their own in the pursuit of increasing their skills.

Richard

[IBWET]

Originally Posted by willk

Reading those posts in sequence would suggest that perhaps the lack of subtlety was what they/we disagreed with. It's like an new Etec owner asking the forum how to winterise his engine. "RTFM" immediately springs to mind but the answers tend to be gentler, and the lesson is easier to learn.....

Funnily enough the way I read it he was looking for "particular tips" over and above the FM, I'm alway looking for these, to me,this forum should be a place to ask experienced people (ETEC's in this instance)for things from real life sometimes not mentioned in the FM, that will improve the whole process.